华为备胎芯片在美国打压下转正-华为任正非答记者-蚂蚁CEO挺华为

2019-05-27 08:29 阅读 7,698 views 次 华为备胎芯片在美国打压下转正-华为任正非答记者-蚂蚁CEO挺华为已关闭评论

​我们中国的国歌说的很符合现在华为的情况: 美国一断供,中华企业到了最危险的时候,每个人都被迫着发出最后的吼声,起来,起来, 我也曾经是一名华为程序员, 我现在是蚂蚁浏览器公司创始人, 美国断供后,华为可以把订单给像我这样的中国企业, 没有什么东西是我们做不了的, 比如和操作系统一样难的浏览器,我就做出来了, 蚂蚁浏览器有10万代码量,都是中国人写的.

下面是华为创始人任正非答记者问的全文, 最下面有其英文版. 转自华为心声社区.

华为任正非接受中国媒体采访纪要

2019年5月21日

1、中央电视台 记者:首先,我是一个做直播的记者,您是军人出身,严把时间关,我也是严把时间关。时间过得真快,四个月前同样是这个地方,我们做过一次访问,那时我采访您的时候,大家普遍认为华为已经进入了一个低点,大家异常关注,才有了您面对一系列国内外记者的采访。没想到四个月之后,华为今天面对的局势比四个月前更加复杂,甚至更艰难。刚才有记者同行拿出“烂飞机”的照片,同样我也拿到了,这张照片您也非常喜爱,是伤痕累累的照片。

任正非:我是在“悟空问答”网站上看到这张照片,觉得很像我们公司的情况,发给大家。运营商BG认为自己就是这架飞机,他们就自己拿来广播了。后来梳理下来发现,运营商BG反而还没有大的问题,因为有十几年的准备充分。我们现在的情况就是一边飞一边修飞机,争取能够飞回来。

记者:这架飞机之所以能够飞回来,是因为要害部位没有受到伤害,例如油箱、发动机,只是机翼非要害部位受到了伤害。有没有可能飞的时候要害部位受到攻击,那怎么飞回来?

任正非:我讲两个故事,二战时的德国和日本。德国因为不投降,最后被炸得片瓦未存,除了波茨坦会议留下准备开会,其余地方全被炸成平地。日本也受到了强烈轰炸,如果不投降,美军也要全部炸平,最终日本采取了妥协的方法,保留天皇,日本投降,没有被完全摧毁,但是大量的工业基础被摧毁了。当时有一个著名的口号“什么都没有了,只要人还在,就可以重整雄风”,没多少年德国就振兴了,所有房子都修复得跟过去一样。日本的经济也快速恢复,得益于他们的人才、得益于他们的教育、得益于他们的基础,这点是最主要的。所有一切失去了、不能失去的是“人”,人的素质、人的技能、人的信心很重要。

记者:美国时间的昨天,发了一个对华为90天的延迟禁令期,换句话说华为有了90天的临时执照,您怎么看?90天可以做什么?如果新闻是真的,90天如果取消怎么看待这个反复?

任正非:首先,90天对我们没有多大意义,我们已经准备好了。我们最重要的还是把自己能做的事情做好,美国政府做的事不是我们能左右的。借此机会要讲一下,我们还是要非常感谢美国公司的,三十年来美国公司伴随着我们公司成长,做了很多贡献,教明白了我们怎么走路。大家知道,华为绝大部分的顾问公司都是美国公司,典型的有IBM、埃森哲等,有几十家。

第二,美国大量的零部件、器件厂家这么多年来给了我们很大支持。特别是在最近的危机时刻,体现了美国企业的正义与良心。前天晚上,徐直军半夜两三点打电话给我,报告了美国供应商努力备货的情况,我流泪了,感到“得道多助、失道寡助”,今天,美国的企业还在和美国政府沟通审批这个事情。

我们被列入实体清单,美国公司卖产品给华为都必须要拿去批准。美国是法制国家,美国企业不能不遵守法律,实体经济要遵守法律。媒体也不要老骂美国企业,大家多为美国企业说话,要骂就骂美国政客。我觉得有时候不分青红皂白,一竿子打过去打的都是矮的人,其实高的人打不着。媒体应该要理解,美国企业和我们是共命运的,我们都是市场经济的主体。

美国政客做这个工作可能低估了我们的力量。我就不多说了,因为何庭波的员工信说得很清楚,国外、国内的主流媒体都刊登了。刚才说到烂飞机,我们有一些边缘产品没有“备胎”,这些产品本来迟早就要淘汰的,这些有影响。但在最先进的领域不会有多少影响,至少5G不会影响,不仅不影响,别人两三年也不会追上我们的。

 

2、《人民日报》记者:我想问一个关于芯片的问题。我注意到您在18日接受日本媒体采访时表示“华为不需要美国芯片,华为没问题”。华为公司致员工的一封信被刷屏,信中说公司是有底气、有准备的。请问华为的底气从何而来,做了哪些准备?

任正非:第一,我们永远需要美国芯片。美国公司现在履行责任去华盛顿申请审批,如果审批通过,我们还是要购买它,或者卖给它(不光买也要卖,使它更先进)。因此,我们不会排斥美国,狭隘地自我成长,还是要共同成长。如果真出现供应不上的情况,我们没有困难。因为所有的高端芯片我们都可以自己制造。在和平时期,我们从来都是“1+1”政策,一半买美国公司的芯片,一半用自己的芯片。尽管自己芯片的成本低得多的多,我还是高价买美国的芯片,因为我们不能孤立于世界,应该融入世界。我们和美国公司之间的友好是几十年形成的,不是一张纸就可以摧毁的。我们将来还是要大规模买美国器件的,只要它能争取到华盛顿的批准。现在时间很匆忙,一时半会估计批不准,缓冲一下是可以的。他们能获得批准的话,我们还是会保持跟美国公司的正常贸易,要共同建设人类信息社会,而不是孤家寡人来建设信息社会。

日本媒体整理稿子时有一点偏激,我们能做和美国一样的芯片,不等于说我们就不买了。

 

3、新华社 记者:您之前说华为不想做独行侠,需要合作。现在又提到可以做好两手准备。我可不可以理解为,现在美国的贸易保护主义,根据禁令实际上会打断全球的供应链,使得整个市场感到混乱?第二,过去一段时间以来,美方质疑华为的公司治理、财务问题等各种各样的问题,您认为反对华为的声音主要纠结于华为的哪些方面?为什么要针对华为?

任正非:政治家怎么想的我真不知道。我觉得不能因为我们领先了美国就要挨打,因为5G并不是原子弹,而是造福人类社会的。

5G的容量是4G的20倍,是2G的1万倍;耗电每个比特相比4G下降了10倍;体积下降到1/3,下降了70%。5G基站只有一点点大,20公斤,就像装文件的手提箱那么大,不需要铁塔了,可以随意地装在杆子上、挂在墙上;我们还有耐腐蚀材料,几十年不会腐蚀,可以把5G装在下水道里。这样的方便对欧洲最适合,欧洲有非常老的城区,不能像中国这样安装大铁塔。当然中国的大铁塔也不浪费,可以把5G基站挂在上面。但是不需要新建铁塔了。每个站点不需要吊车等,在工程费用上在欧洲还可以降低一万欧元。不仅是铁塔,以前的基站大需要吊车,把吊车开进去还需要封路。现在5G基站我们用人手提就上去了,因此很简单。第二,5G带宽的能量非常大,能提供非常多的高清内容,传播8K电视很简单。宣传上说费用下降了10倍,实际上可以下降了100倍,这样老百姓也能看高清电视,文化就会快速提升。国家发展要靠文化、哲学、教育,这是发展国家的基础。因此,5G改变一个社会,它还有非常短的时延,可以用于工业的很多东西。

董老师关心的是发动机打掉没有?我们是边缘的翅膀有可能有洞,但核心部分我们完全是以自己为中心,而且是真领先世界。越高端,“备胎”越充分。

记者:您是不是觉得国际市场秩序被打乱?

任正非:不会。欧洲不会跟它走,美国企业大多数反而跟我们沟通很密切。

 

4、《环球时报》记者:刚才谈到对华为的影响,看到海思这封信之后,从舆论反应来讲非常热血。芯片行业的从业者以一个比较客观的态度来看待国产芯片,包括国产的核心零部件和美国、外国企业的差距。您觉得华为的自主产品和研发究竟走到哪里?包括信里提到的,保证接下来能连续不间断的供应?有没有一个临界点,位于何处?

任正非:为什么不洗一个“冷水澡”呢?我认为,我们最重要的是要冷静、沉着。热血沸腾、口号满天飞,最后打仗时不行也没用,最终要能打赢才是真的。

我们首先要肯定美国在科学技术上的深度、广度,都是值得我们学习的,我们还有很多欠缺的地方,特别是美国一些小公司的产品是超级尖端的。我们仅仅是聚焦在自己的行业上,做到了现在的领先,而不是对准美国的国家水平。就我们公司和个别的企业比,我们认为已经没有多少差距了;但就我们国家整体和美国比,差距还很大。这与我们这些年的经济上的泡沫化有很大关系,P2P、互联网、金融、房地产、山寨商品……等等泡沫,使得人们的学术思想也泡沫化了。一个基础理论形成需要几十年的时间,如果大家都不认真去做理论,都去喊口号,几十年以后我们不会更加强大。所以,我们还是要踏踏实实做学问。

 

5、《澎湃新闻》记者:关于芯片的问题。看到何总发的公开信以后,很受鼓舞。我看资料海思是2004年成立的,经过这么多年发展,在很多方面已经有自己的芯片。当时是怎么推演的,您个人或者华为当时如何决定做自研芯片?包括何总讲到“极限生存”的假设,推演到目前为止,您前两天接受媒体采访说到“我们已经不需要美国芯片了”,这个过程能不能描述一下?当初的推演到现在的结果,符合当初的设想吗?如果美国芯片完全不能供应,为客户提供服务的能力如何?

任正非:其实我们牺牲了个人、家庭,牺牲了陪伴父母……,这些都是为了一个理想——站到世界最高点。今天大家憋不住了,就喊出口号,要“争雄世界”、“世界第一”。以前我们是不允许喊的,为了这个理想,我们与美国迟早有冲突。为了避免这个冲突,2000年初的时候,我们也很犹豫,能不能戴顶“牛仔帽”,我们曾经准备以100亿美元把华为卖给一家美国公司,合同签订了,所有手续都办完了,就等对方董事会批准。所有谈判人员都在酒店买了花衣服,在沙滩上比赛跑步、乒乓球,等待批准。在这个过程中,美国公司董事会换届,新董事长比较短视,拒绝了这项收购,收购就没有完成。当时准备卖给美国公司,我们的想法是,一群中国人戴着一顶美国“牛仔帽”打遍全世界。这个想法没能实现之后,我们高层领导表决,还卖不卖?少壮派一致表决“不卖”,我也不能违背。我告诉他们,迟早我们要与美国相遇的,那我们就要准备和美国在“山顶”上交锋,做好一切准备,从那时起,就考虑到美国和我们在“山顶”相遇的问题,做了一些准备。但最终,我们还是要在山顶上拥抱,一起为人类社会做贡献的。

记者:包括华为其他管理层也释放出“有能力继续为客户服务”的信息,会不会因为美国事件对原来的大客户、对业务造成影响,我们怎么应对?

任正非:我们肯定能继续为客户服务,我们的量产能力还是很大的,并没有因为被美国列入实体清单受到多少影响,我们在全球的竞标还是在前进。增长速度会减慢,但不会有想象中的那么慢。我们一季度销售收入同比增长39%,四月份降到25%,预计今年底还会下降一些,但是不会造成我们公司负增长,或者对产业发展带来伤害。

 

6、《科技日报》记者:如果美国断供发生,对这个产业会带来什么样的影响?前两天看到方舟子发了一个微博“如果备胎好用,何必等到胎破了再用?”,这个观点您怎么看?

任正非:如果都用“备胎”,就是体现了你们所说的“自主创新”,自主创新最主要目的是想做孤家寡人,我们想朋友遍天下。因此,没有像他想象的“备胎好用,怎么不用”,他不理解我们的战略思维。我们不愿意伤害朋友,要帮助他们有良好的财务报表,即使我们有调整,也要帮助。

我刚才也讲到,我们没有和美国公司表明不用它们的器件,而是希望美国公司继续能给我们供货,我们共同为人类服务。在早期,我们还把芯片这方面的开发心得告诉对方,甚至研究成果,我们自己不生产,交给对方生产,要不然全世界的供应商怎么对我们那么好。“备胎好用,为什么不用?”备胎、备胎,胎不坏,为什么要用?

记者:万一真的出现断供情况,对产业有什么影响?

任正非:对于我们公司,不会出现极端断供的情况,我们已经做好准备了。我年初判断这个事情的出现可能是两年以后,因为总要等美国和我们的官司法庭判决以后,美国才会对我们实施打击,无论结论怎样,(美国)都会对我们打击。这样我们还有两年时间,足够准备。由于孟晚舟被捕,就把“导火索”时间推前了。

大家都知道,我们春节也在加班,我春节也在慰问员工。春节加班期间,仅仅是保安、清洁工、餐厅服务员……,在国内就有5000名服务人员在供应我们的“战士”,他们可以拿多倍工资,公司采购食品的价格都翻一番,还给服务员一些小费。我们很多员工春节连家都不回,打地铺睡,就是要抢时间奋斗。五一节也是这样的,很多人没有回家。

 

7、《网易》记者:谈到备胎计划,华为实施备胎计划这么多年来投入了多少资金?如果备胎计划一直不启用,会一直投入钱到这个备胎计划吗?

任正非:实在是太多了,我说不清楚。“正胎”和“备胎”的预算和人力编制是一起拨给他们的,以前预算分配以“正胎”为主,现在以“备胎”为主。具体多少,我是搞不清楚的,每次汇报都是满满的几页纸,我不会过问每个零部件,只是在大概念上过一过。落到下面的计划,这个零部件中还有哪几个关键环节,是一点点来的。要不怎么会有八、九万的研发工程师呢?

 

8、《财新周刊》记者:美国管制之后,华为在日本、欧洲、台湾地区的企业,估计会帮到华为很多。美国政府如果管制不成功,下一步会不会对台积电这种企业施压?华为毕竟是一个芯片企业,并不具备整个产业链方面的能力。

任正非:如果外面不屈服的人多了,后面跟着不屈服的人就更多了,我们不要太操心这些,毕竟没有发生。

记者:Google事件,欧洲地区用户很担心,未来华为手机不能用安卓最新的系统。在这方面,如何去应对?

任正非:Google是一家好公司,而且一家高度负责任的公司,它也在说服美国政府解决这个问题。我们也在讨论变通的救济方案,专家们还在做这个事情,现在我还不能完全回答你。

 

9、《腾讯网》记者:您觉得现在这种严峻的形势大概会持续几年?这对于华为的发展历史会是转折点吗?

任正非:你应该问特朗普,问我就问错了。我认为,这件事有两面性,一方面我们会受到一些影响,另一方面,会刺激中国系统性地、踏踏实实地发展电子工业。国家发展工业,过去的方针是砸钱,但钱砸下去不起作用。我们国家修桥、修路、修房子……已经习惯了只要砸钱就行。但是芯片砸钱不行,得砸数学家、物理学家、化学家……,但是我们有几个人在认真读书?博士论文真知灼见有多少呢?这种状况下,完全依靠中国自主创新,很难成功。为什么不跨国创新呢?可以在很多国家中建立创新基地。哪个地方有能力,就到哪个地方去,我们可以在当地去建一个研究所。

当然,中国现在回来了很多人才,这是很重要的。但是中国的个人所得税比外国高很多,如果来到中国,要多缴这么多税,“雷锋”精神是不可持续的,雷锋是把一切都献给国家、献给党。但是,毕竟这些顶级专家是从外国回到中国,不仅没有优惠,税收还高很多。最近听说大湾区可以降到15%,实施措施是什么?是不是要在大湾区有户口,是否要在大湾区有工作?换一个地方就不行,这个政策有什么用?科学家本身就是流动的,只在这里上班八小时,还是科学家吗?我们要创造一些外国科学家回国的路。

第一次世界人才大转移,是苏联的三百万犹太人转移到以色列,以色列成为了一个科技高地。第二次人才大转移又来了,美国排外,大量人才进入不了机密研究。美国著名媒体写了一篇文章反问美国“中国如果发明了治癌的药物,也危害国家安全吗?”美国癌症中心辞退了三个华人科学家,中国人发明的癌症药,难道也危害国家安全了吗?他反问美国。很多科学家在美国丧失了工作信心,为什么不拥抱他们进来呢?他们问“怎么进来?孩子上学难,没户口买不了车,还要缴很高的税收。”应该调整我们的政策,拥抱这个世界。美国两百年前是印第安人的不毛之地,就是政策对了,今天是世界霸主。我们国家有五千年文明,有这么好的基础,应该拿出政策来拥抱世界人才来中国创业。

大家要想到,东欧国家都比较贫穷,但是美国大量的领袖、科学家、金融家……都是东欧人,我们为什么不大规模吸引东欧人到中国来,或者在东欧建立各种研究基地?所以,以中国为中心建立理论基地要突破美国的重围,眼前这个方式比较难,因为中国在基础理论上不够,这些年好一些了。我曾在全国科学大会上讲了数学的重要性,听说现在数学毕业生比较好分配了。我们有几个人愿意读数学的?我不是学数学的,我曾经说,我退休以后想找一个好大学,学数学。校长问我,学数学干什么?我说,想研究热力学第二定律。他问,研究用来做什么?我说,想研究宇宙起源。他说,我很欢迎你!但是我到现在还不能退休,还去不了。我们那时是工科学生,学的是高等数学,最浅的数学。中国要踏踏实实在数学、物理、化学、神经学、脑科学……各方面努力去改变,我们可能在这个世界上能站起来。

中国过去的哲学体系是玄学,即使有佛教,也是梵文,唐僧应该翻译成汉语,但是没有翻。西方推行的是形而上学和机械唯物论,产生了物理、化学、数学、几何学……各种学科,所以工业发达,建立了工业社会,占领了全世界。现在玄学没有说没用,搞虚拟世界,中国的游戏业发展很快,人类社会的很多生产方式也可能会虚拟化。人类在人工智能的科学家中,有50%左右是华人,如果他们受到排挤,拥抱他们进入中国,他们就会在底层平台上创新,给我们提供了一个基础。

我认为,如果能够真真实实把优秀人才引进来,对我们改革是好的。如果还是强调自主创新,就会浪费非常多宝贵时间。

 

10、《每日经济新闻》记者:鸿蒙系统有没有在华为内部小范围使用?

任正非:这个问题抱歉今天回答不了。我们能做操作系统,但不一定是替代别人的做法,因为我们在人工智能、万物互联中本身也是需要,但是到底哪些用了、哪些没用,我不是很清楚。

记者:现在很多的文章是“华为震惊体”,华为震惊了全球。

任正非:我们公司员工都是傻傻的,一个都没有被吓到,我们觉得很平常。网上文章一般很夸大,就像网上说英飞凌不给我们供货了,哪有这回事?这是有人编的。所以,如果真想了解华为的事情,就请看我们的心声社区。在心声社区上,即使骂公司的帖子也不会被封,反而是人力资源部要去看看他骂得怎么样,如果骂得很对,就开始调查,再看看前三年他的业绩,业绩也很好的话,就调到公司秘书处来,帮助处理一些具体问题,培训他、锻炼他,也就是给他一个到总参谋部来“洗澡”的机会,半年以后把他放下去,这些种子将来迟早是要当领袖的。总说我们好的人,反而是麻痹我们,因为没有内容。心声社区骂我们的内容都是很具体的,我们要对具体去分析。如果没有自我批判精神,我们就不可能活到今天。

 

11、《财经杂志》记者:现在大家都很关心华为的“备胎”计划,您从十年前就开始谈国际形势对华为的一些比较有忧患意识的影响。

任正非:对于“备胎”计划的讲话,总裁办邮件都是公开的,从什么时候开始讲的,我不记得了,但是反复讲过,只是不引起社会重视。现在美国打我们一下,“备胎”这个词就被重视了。

记者:这么多年的忧患意识战略倾向和具体的业务连续性,宏观和微观层面的结合。这么多年一直考虑这个事情,当预想变成现实时,而且打击比大家想象中严重,您有没有一些新的想法?我们已经看到太多关于中美贸易摩擦对华为的影响,真正挑战来的时候,有没有新的想法?

任正非:第一,业务连续性和“备胎”是一致的,备胎就是保证在车子抛锚时换一个轮胎还能开。连续性也是一步步实现的,其实很多东西已经投产了。投产的时候不排外,外面的货订一半。我曾经有篇文章说,每年至少买高通5000万套芯片,因此我们从来没有去排斥和抵制。

世界上最大的备胎就是原子弹,原子弹有什么用?二战后一次也没有用过。但是中国升官的官员基本都有两弹背景,一是做两弹有能力,二是忠诚于国家的事业,技术可靠又有能力,就当一个部长或者省长。40岁左右就能当省长,让我们很羡慕,我们40岁还在找工作。“备胎”现在变成一个新名词,在我们公司是很正常的行为。何庭波也被炒红了,在美国发禁令的那天晚上发的,她憋不住了。这些年她很难受,做那么多年都不能把脑袋昂起来。

记者:也就是说,您认为备胎一直在,备胎用不用还不好说?

任正非:备胎一定有用的,因为是结合我们的解决方案设计的,不是脱离解决方案做的。直到它能用的时候,才开始投入使用,滚动着用。

 

12、记者:现在大家对华为有两派很鲜明的情绪:第一,很鲜明的爱国主义,把对华为的支持上升到支持爱国的高度上;第二,华为绑架了全社会的爱国情绪,要是不挺华为就不爱国。现在情绪越来越严重了。

任正非:那我的小孩用苹果,就是不爱华为了?不能这么说。我经常讲这样的话,余承东很生气,认为老板总为别人宣传,不为自己宣传。我讲的是事实,不能说用华为产品就爱国,不用就是不爱国。华为产品只是商品,如果喜欢就用,不喜欢就不用,不要和政治挂钩。华为毕竟是商业公司,我们在广告牌上从来没有“为国争光”这类话。只是最近的誓师大会有时候瞎喊几句,但是我们会马上出文件制止他们瞎喊口号,大家开庆功会、发奖章都没有问题,茶余饭后说两句过头话没问题,但是千万不能煽起民粹主义的风。

我经常举一些例子,其实就是想泼华为公司的冷水,不能使用民粹主义,这是害国的。因为国家未来的前途在“开放”。这次中美会谈完了以后,中央电视台讲到“我们要开放、要改革”,我好高兴。实际上,我们还是开放晚了、改革晚了,WTO对人家是有承诺的,我们得到好处以后就要去兑现。如果早一些去兑现,做一些贡献,就能团结更多的朋友。中国的钱太多,为什么只存美国,不存一些到欧洲、俄罗斯、非洲……各个国家?如果说担心他们不还,他们是以国家信用抵押的,今年不还,一百年后还,不行吗?中国又不着急钱,这样就分散了风险。对于农产品,为什么非买一家?可以买乌克兰的农产品,乌克兰就不会那么困难。

 

13、《科技日报》记者:刚才谈到做芯片光靠砸钱不行,又谈到需要物理学家、数学家。作为一个商业公司,华为在此前的场合,无论是华为公司还是您个人,多次谈到“基础研究与基础教育”,包括还有一些广告。针对基础研究和基础教育,华为有哪些具体的动作?这会对华为未来的发展提供什么样的支撑?

任正非:我们在全世界有26个研发能力中心,拥有在职的数学家700多人,物理学家800多人,化学家120多人。我们还有一个战略研究院,拿着大量的钱,向全世界著名大学的著名教授“撒胡椒面”,对这些钱我们没有投资回报的概念,而是使用美国“拜杜法案”原则,也就是说,受益的是大学。这样,从我们“喇叭口”延伸出去的科学家就更多了。

大家今天讲5G标准对人类社会有多么厉害,怎么会想到,5G标准是源于十多年前土耳其Arikan教授的一篇数学论文?Arikan教授发表这篇论文两个月后,被我们发现了,我们就开始以这个论文为中心研究各种专利,一步步研究解体,共投入了数千人。十年时间,我们就把土耳其教授数学论文变成技术和标准。我们的5G基本专利数量占世界27%左右,排第一位。土耳其教授不是华为在编员工,但是我们拿钱支持他的实验室,他可以去招更多的博士生,我们给博士生提供帮助。我们在日本支持一位大学教授,他的四个博士生全到我们公司来上班,上班地点就在他的办公室,而且他又可以再招四个博士生,等于有八个博士帮做他研究,所有论文等一切都归属他,不归属我们。如果我们要用他的东西,需要商业交易,这就是美国的“拜杜法案”原则,我们就是通过这样的“喇叭口”,延伸出更多的科学家。

上周我们召开了世界科学家大会,我没有去现场,通过视频转播到我的会议室。来了一批科学青年给我做技术翻译,都是博士,很厉害,他们给我解释这些论文对未来人类社会有什么意义。我们不断有这种世界性的交流,我们自己吸收能量,他们也吸收了我们的需求,不断滚动传播。

西方公司在人才争夺上,比我们看得长远,发现你是人才,就去他们公司实习,专门有人培养你,这不是我们大学毕业找工作的概念。我们扩大了与美国公司争夺人才的机会窗,但我们的实力还不够。对世界各国的优秀大学生,从大二开始,我们就给他们发offer。这些孩子超级聪明,举一个例子,新西伯利亚大学连续六年拿到世界计算机竞赛冠军、亚军,但是所有冠军、亚军都被Google用五、六倍的工资挖走了,从今年开始,我们要开出比Google更高的薪酬挖他们来,在俄罗斯的土地上创新,我们要和Google争夺人才。我们支持科学家的创新,对科学家不要求追求成功,失败也是成功,因为他们把人才培养出来了。只有这样,我们才有可能源源不断地前进。

 

14、《界面》记者:我去参观了华为实验室,有很多新鲜的发明,比如防腐蚀设备、热传导……,我发现都是高中化学的原理,但是运用起来非常神奇。这是不是您眼中的基础科学和基础教育的一种表现形式,这种基础科学的积累,能够在当下关键节点上给公司带来多大的帮助?

任正非:其实原子弹的核反应链式方程,初中生都学过,但是做成原子弹可不那么容易。基础科学看起来道理很简单,实施起来非常难。所以,在国外某项东西可能看起来是很小的发明,但是发明中套发明,再套发明,是数千项专利、上万项专利支撑了一个小小的零件。

 

15、《新浪》记者:现在谈加强数学与基础学科的投入,您认为现在华为的投入在全世界范围内大概处于一个什么样的水平?您以什么样的机缘,认识到投入基础学科的重要性?您对未来的投入有什么样的目标和预期?

任正非:举一个例子,P30手机的照相就是数学。现在的图像不是照出来的,是数学算出来的。因为人的眼睛相当于有一亿个镜头,相机就一个镜头,我们手机通过一个镜头进来的感光点,用数学的方式分解成几千万个视觉镜头,再重新还原出来。我们公司数学家的口号是“把手机做的比人类眼睛还好”,我还在公司讲话批判过,我觉得没有必要,但是他们顽固不化,没有办法。他们说“手机照月亮,可以照一千公里”,可能是真的,因为它是数学,把微弱的信号可能还原。

我去法国尼斯研究所见他们,就说“尼斯的海是蓝的,天是蓝的,数学家的公式为什么也是蓝的?”原来图像偏蓝色基调,现在好像纠正过来了。手机之所以进步这么快,得益于我们的战略“备胎”,因为我们网络建立的战略备胎没有用,就划给了终端,终端一下如鱼得水,每三个月换一代,主要是数学家的贡献,当然还有物理学家做光的三色传感器。

所以,如果电子工业还停留在买别人零部件来组装,不可能的。当然,他们也有数学,只是数学是别的公司做的,在零部件中加钱卖给他们。在这个方面,我们应该是领导世界的,站在世界最前面的。

 

16、《环球网》记者:一段时间以来,美国不仅自己打压华为,还拉拢欧洲盟友对华为施压,封锁华为,如果美国持续强硬要求欧洲盟友们关闭对华为的大门,您是否会亲自到英国唐宁街10号、法国爱丽舍宫等,以更直接有效的方式推开那扇威胁对华为关闭的大门?

任正非:唐宁街10号,我以前经常去喝下午茶。他们问我,如何学习与国际接轨?我说,下午茶。所以,他们为了接待我,在唐宁街喝下午茶。我们与各国领导人都是有沟通的,每个国家有独自的利益,美国不会有那么强大的力量号召所有人都跟它走。

 

17、《凤凰网》记者:去年一直比较关心手机企业对于无障碍的支持,科技进步对残疾人士帮助非常大。华为是一家比较有理想的企业,上周5月16日全球无障碍日,华为作为一家领先的科技公司,在无障碍方面做了哪些努力?之后有什么计划?

任正非:我曾在日本试戴我们公司的眼镜,可以看到几千公里以外员工的操作,对他的操作给予指导;或者戴上眼镜以后,眼镜上有所有的图纸,对与不对全都有指导,这是已经能做到的。有没有进入市场,我不知道。

对残障人的支持,理论上将来是能够提供的,现在具体进行到什么阶段,我还不知道,我让他们打电话问问。理论上可以通过对脑神经刺激感觉,能做到这点。我戴的是无线的眼镜,能看几千公里以外员工进行的工程。当然,现在我讲的不算,因为看的是科学家给我的演示项目,还不是商品。

 

18、《凤凰网》记者:苹果一直比较关注基础教育,做得很好。很多ipad、iphone对于孩子学习很有帮助。华为非常重视基础教育,包括基础学科,华为做了哪些努力?不能光说不做,我想知道对于教育这块的看法。

任正非:提高全民族文化素质是国家的基本责任,任何一个企业都不可能担负起一个民族素质提升的责任来。不能说提到了教育就要去做教育。

中国将来和美国竞赛,唯有提高教育,没有其他路。教育手段的商品是另外一个事情,我认为最主要还是要重视教师,因为教师得到被尊重了以后,大家都想做教师。深圳教师得到了尊重,深圳老师挣钱多,253个人竞争一个教师岗位。我们帮助清华附中建设清澜山中学,校长说将来能做到中国第一的学校,因为收费高。清澜山只招收两千多个学生,对全社会开放,华为员工抢着送孩子进去,送不进去找我,我说我管不了你们。

只有教师的政治地位提升,经济待遇提升了,我认为才可能使得教育得到较大发展。我个人为什么感受很深?我父母是乡村教师,在贵州最偏僻的少数民族地区从事乡村教育工作,父母这一辈子做教师的体会对孩子们的教育就是一句话“今生今世不准当老师”,如果老师都不让自己的孩子当老师,国家是后继无人的。我亲身经历了他们政治地位低、受人歧视、经济待遇差的窘境,我们自己跟着他们,也亲身体会了这个苦,所以没有选择去当老师。

 

19、《中国经营报》记者:我有两个问题:第一,在公司规划中,当前消费者业务是最大的一块,接着是运营商业务、企业业务。在您心里,未来一段时间比如说五年或者十年以后,三块业务会达到什么样的营收占比?第二,关于海思的定位,在当前局势下,你怎么设计海思在华为体系中未来定位问题?

任正非:海思是华为的一个助战队伍,跟着华为主战队伍前进,就如坦克队伍中的加油车、架桥机、担架队一样,是这样的定位。三个板块,不是哪个板块挣钱多就地位高,只有网络联接部门才能称霸世界,美国打的是这个部门,“烂飞机”说的也是这个部门。现在梳理下来,发现这个部门困难少,因为准备时间长,反而别的部门困难多。在5G、光传输、核心网等领域,不会受到打击,还会长期领先世界很多年。

 

20、《第一财经日报》记者:最近海思集结令刷屏,不停地招聘全球员工,海思未来什么时候会独立?

任正非:永远不会独立,它就是主战部队里的“加油车”、“担架队”、“架桥队”,不是主战部队,怎么会独立呢?网络联接部门是主战部门,将来销售额不一定是最高,因为“珠穆朗玛峰”可能容纳不了这么多产值,但是“珠穆朗玛峰”对世界意义很大,是一个战略高地。美国就是为了争夺战略高地,争夺不到,所以使用行政手段,我们怎么会见钱眼开,放弃这个战略高地呢?我们不会喧宾夺主。

 

21、《第一财经日报》记者:华为虽然有连续性作业管理的准备,但是面对一个服务器、基站,涉及的零部件太多了,您的乐观来自于哪里?

任正非:把问题梳理出来,每个存在的问题都要去解决。

 

22、《人民日报》记者:问一个关于研发的问题,华为在研发投入非常大,今后华为在研发上重点方向有哪些?有哪些技术储备?

任正非:我们这三十年都对着同一个“城墙口”冲锋,几十人、几百人对着这个“城墙口”,几万人、十几万人还是攻这个“城墙口”,总会把这个“城墙口”攻开的。而且我们炮击这个“城墙口”的“弹药量”,现在是每年200亿美元的研发了,全世界没有一个上市公司敢像我们这样对同一个“城墙口”投入这么多的炮击量。

我们仅仅围绕着“疏导信息流量”做努力,终端就是一个“水龙头”,CNBG就是一个“管道”,越这么做,我们越可能领导世界,越容易在世界上占有一定的合理地位,而且炮击量还会越来越大。如果我们财务受一点挫折,还不会影响科技上的投入,因为员工都不贪钱,生活费都够了。很多科研人员的老婆省钱,我还批评;有人问我,你们华为公司谁是雷锋?你们去奢侈品商店看,买几个包就走的人,问一下她的老公是哪里的?华为的。顺着来找工号,那就是雷锋,不用评了。老公挣钱多,老婆不花,老公怎么还有动力去挣钱呢?我们持续还在同一个领域前进,不会换轨道。

外面网传我们造车,我们不会做的。因为我们的车联网基本上是世界最主要车企的供应商,将来以车载计算、车载电子为主,我们可能产业很大。与别人合作,一起实现了无人驾驶,人家送我们一台车,车上印了华为标记,不等于华为要造车。这只是传说,我们不会随便换轨道的。

 

23、《搜狐》记者:您对基础教育很重视,未来有没有可能以某些形式参与到基础教育工作呢?

任正非:基础教育是国家的责任,企业要做好企业自身的事情。我们是主战部队,“坦克大军”在前进时,拖着几个孩子、拿着几个识字本,就不可能冲得上“上甘岭”。为人类建立这么庞大的网络,就是我们最大的社会责任,全世界30亿人口是我们联接起来的。特别是非洲地区,因为不赚钱,西方国家不去,是我们去联接起来的。如果华为不存在了,才是对世界的威胁。

我们不会自己去做教育,因为我们的主战部队还要缩减,要把一些次要的组织砍掉,让他们转为民兵组织私有化,跟着我们前进。就像淮海战役一样,民工推着独轮车送粮食,但是要给钱的。今年春节期间员工加班时,有五千多人提供服务,就是民兵组织,春节不仅买东西价格翻倍,还给服务人员一定奖励,及时兑现。

 

24、《21世纪经济报道》袁一泓:在我们看来,华为的管理哲学、管理思想是任总的管理哲学和管理思想,您认为华为的管理哲学和管理思想的精髓是什么?国际的管理哲学长期为西方主导,您是否认为,中国的管理哲学、管理思想是不是到了向世界输出的时候了?市面上有大量的书籍写华为秘籍,存在华为的秘籍吗?华为模式可以复制吗?

任正非:华为没有哲学,我个人没有学过哲学,也没有认真读过哲学书。外面的书,作者我也没见过,不认识,也许是他编的吧。外面流传的华为哲学是大家随便说的,没有什么特别的东西。我认为,如果说华为公司有哲学,就一点“以客户为中心,为客户创造价值”。因为钱在客户口袋里,有三种方法可以拿到这个钱 第一,抢,这是犯罪;第二,偷,也不行,要在派出所待两三天才能被放出来;第三,客户心甘情愿把钱给你,你必须要提供好的商品,为他提供需要的服务。所以,秘密就这一条。

你们看,我们园区的小咖啡厅都做得很好,为什么?不要做假,踏踏实实认真做。以前我们的咖啡厅,五、六个华为员工拿着高工资、股票,在那里做咖啡,还亏损。我说你们创业吧,一个人一个店创业,现在能挣七八十万。我们机关有人说要去查“以前不挣钱,现在挣钱了,搞什么名堂挣钱?”我说,去查一次,就裁一个人,为什么?你的人太多了,不干正事。他只要缴了房租水电,卫生质量好,员工喜欢去消费,你管那么多闲事干什么?所以,我们的后勤机构压缩得很小,为全世界170个国家、18万员工的后勤保障人员,只有703个。

 

25、新华社 记者:最近看到一篇您在员工持股会上讲话,华为通过了治理章程文件,您称之为里程碑式的进步,同时还有关于华为公司的治理结构,华为的治理方向是什么?

任正非:其实我们的治理结构和治理章程,全在网上公布过。董事会换届选举经历了一年多,有九万多人参加了,不断学习、不断传播,只是媒体不太感兴趣。你提的这个问题,今天我没法完整地给你解释,这是一个体系。

记者:华为未来想发展成什么样的企业,或者什么样的方向?

任正非:除了不让资本进来,其他什么都可以讨论。

 

26、中央电视台 记者:有一个很强烈的感受,任总有非常浓厚的居安思危的意识,芯片十几年前就有备胎计划了,特别好奇这种危机意识最初是来自哪里?

任正非:总是挨打,就觉得有危机了。

 

27、《36氪》记者:刚才大家问了很多问题,都说华为有备胎计划,还有对现在的情势很乐观。现阶段您最担心的事情是什么?这次事件牵涉到您的家人,在日常与家人沟通相处的过程中,对您的决策有没有什么影响?

任正非:抓我的家人,就是想影响我的意志,我家人给我的鼓舞就是鼓舞我的意志。女儿写给我的信说,她会长期做好思想准备,她也很乐观,我就放心了,减轻了很大压力。我要超越个人、超越家庭、超越华为来思考这个世界上的问题,否则我就不客观了。

我与外国记者沟通,他们是很直率的。公共关系部把全文印成了书,今天都送给你们。为什么要这么多沟通?如果站在狭窄的观点来看,我们与西方媒体是对抗的,也许与你们也是对抗的。我应该超越自身的观点来沟通,平等讨论问题。

华为公司高层领导绝大多数都没有站在自身利益、企业利益来考虑问题,我们是世界性的,世界上接受我们、声援我们的朋友是很多的。

 

28、中央电视台 记者:我特别关注自主知识产权、自主创新问题,很多人认为自主知识产权、自主创新才是我们未来一条活路。您刚才讲海思作为备胎持久生存,就是有自主创新作为基础,但是您又讲“飞机”上非重要地方该放弃就放弃,不要浪费时间、浪费精力,为什么有这么大的差异?

任正非:自主创新作为一种精神是值得鼓励的,站在人类文明的基础上创新才是正确的。所有科学家都是自主创新,为什么?他们做一些莫名其妙的题目,谁也搞不懂。但是我们要看到,科技创新是需要站在前人的肩膀上前进的,比如我们的海思并非从源头开始自主创新,也给别人缴纳了大量知识产权费用,有些是签订了交叉许可协议,有些协议是永久授权的,你中有我,我中有你,在别人的基础上形成了我们自己的创新。

我们同意鼓励自主创新,但是要把定义讲清楚。相同的东西,你自己做出来了也不能用,也要给人家原创交钱,这是法律,谁先申请归谁。无线电最早是波波夫发明,但是俄罗斯为了保密,压制了这个东西的公布;意大利的马可尼先申请,所以无线电的发明权归“马可尼”。飞机的发明者不是莱特兄弟,他们只是完成了飞行。其实真正的发明者是茹柯夫斯基,他的流体力学公式推演了让翅膀如何升起来,奠定了升力流体力学。我们的飞机喷气发动机到今天不过关,但是喷气发动机是谁发明的?中国人。邓小平到英国引进斯贝发动机时,斯贝同意把发动机卖给我们。邓小平问军用的发动机卖不卖?英国人回答说卖。其实中国想买民用发动机,主要做民航机的备件,后来英国人军用发动机也卖,也就是现在轰炸机6用的发动机。邓小平站起来向英国科学家致敬,英国科学家吓坏了,赶紧站起来回礼,说“感谢中国科学家的伟大发明”。邓小平回来查是谁发明的,是吴仲华,这人在什么地方?一查这个人在湖北养猪,赶紧调回北京去做热物理研究所的所长。我们为什么不借着吴仲华的研究,一步步深入,为什么在喷气发动机上不能进行理论突破呢?现在飞机发动机设计叫实验科学,不叫理论科学,而飞机一定是理论科学。你们看绍伊古关于飞机的讲话,美国飞机很精密,飞机时间是4000-5000小时;俄罗斯飞机没有那么发达,只能飞1000小时,绍伊古就问,战争时期飞机能飞满1000小时吗?大多数没到1000小时就打掉了,那何必要搞4000-5000小时,还那么贵,于是从实战的需求就确定了他们设计飞机的原则。他说,飞机飞得不快、金属表面不平,俄罗斯就在翅膀形成一层层流膜,解决了高速空气的润滑作用,这样俄罗斯飞机也能飞得很快。F22隐形飞机的隐形原理也是五十年代前苏联数学家发明的,数学家说钻石切面是有隐身功能,前苏联研究半天觉得这个东西没用,为什么?因为做不到,没有意义,所以批准论文公开发表。美国人读了以后,如获至宝,花二十年时间把F22隐形飞机做出来了,当然现在我们的米波雷达又把F22看见了。

其实中国五十年代也有很多原创科学家,但是现在都是毛毛糙糙、泡沫化的学风,这种学风怎么能奠定我们国家的基础科研竞争力呢?所以,还是要改造学风。

记者:您刚才提到一个事情特别重要,自主创新的定义到底是什么? 您反对的是封闭式、重复性的自主创新?

任正非:自主创新如果是一种精神,我支持;如果是一种行动,我就反对。

记者:如果您这么来定义,大家一定会把海思拿出来反驳您?

任正非:海思也是站在别人的肩膀上的创新。

朱广平:自主创新不等于全是自己创新。创新最重要的是在一个系统中掌握最核心的一部分,而不是重复去造很多别人已经造好的“轮子”,那是没有意义的。任总一直强调数学,数学的核心是解决“知其然和知其所以然”的问题。比如说,你可以很容易做出一把锄头来,但是锄头背后的这些原理,你是否了解?什么样的形状是最好的?所有的这些东西,你可以做实验,但是实验背后的原理到底是什么?怎么证明你的实验和理论之间有多大差别,极限在哪里?这都要靠理论来证明。

记者:我要反驳您。在汽车制造业方面,有人说李书福是中国汽车行业非常棒的人,他可以用资金去撬动沃尔沃,又有人说他是短腿巨人,因为不掌握发动机,发动机被世界上绝大多数汽车公司掌握,而我们不掌握,这种情况下自主创新难道不是关键而且重要的吗?

任正非:我并不反对李书福,但减震弹片钢圈、轮胎……是自主创新吗?就讲讲德国怎么造车。有一次我到德国斯图加特,工程院院长带我去参观一年级学生入学的几周学习。每个人发一块铁板,给一个齿轮的图纸,所有人都要用锉刀做出这个齿轮来,做出齿轮来还不能打分,要拿到减速箱去跑,跑完才能打分。这就德国汽车的基础。欧洲车和中国车有什么区别,为什么卖那么贵?就是可靠性高。大家都可以造出车来,但是不是最好的车另当别论。造车要用到大量的人类科技文明,也不是自主创新的概念。

朱广平:自主创新不是全部自己重复做,而是找到自己的长处在哪里。所谓的卡脖子都是在补短板,问题是你的长板在哪?

任正非:短板买别人就行了,何必要自己做短板呢?

记者:如果你自己没有,想买别人的但不能买,就不行了?

任正非:不是每个人都会碰到我们这样的极端情况,多数人不必要走这种道路,应该借助人类文明前进。如果说自主创新,钢板的材料从哪来的?也是别人创新,不是你自主的。

 

29、中央电视台 记者:您现在的状况是偶发的个案,还是说在未来中国企业是一个经常发生的常态?

任正非:我从来没有研究过我们国家的具体社会问题,现在也是让公共关系逼着对外,拿我来当“盾牌”到处“挡枪子”,我就上战场,我老了,打死了就算了,不在乎了。因此,我的主要精力是研究公司内部存在的问题和关注世界相关领域技术,确定我们战略上哪些有错误的。我跟自己的家人关系都处理不好,我跟儿女交往太少了,跟太太交往也少。她说“你就关心你的公司,不关心家人”,如果我再关心社会,可能我的家就没有了。所以,我对社会无法评价,我也没有精力去研究国内其他企业。

 

30、《财经周刊》记者:美国国防部提出的频谱担忧,有办法解除吗?

任正非:我不是正在解除吗?

 

31、《虎嗅》记者:收到了一份您之前接受外面采访的册子,我仔细读了,看到外面问的一些问题,对于我们来说是一些很匪夷所思的问题。其实可以看到,包括都有一些国与国之间相互了解和意识形态的问题,您觉得怎么去改进?会不会考虑华为未来改变在国外的一些姿态、一些传播?或者说,在全球化上会做一些什么样的改进呢?

任正非:我们不会通过传播解决,还是通过给客户提供优质服务来解决我们的形象。我们已经很先进,客户一用就知道多厉害了。举一个例子,韩国LG董事长找我说,他要开300M的LTE,当时我还反对,他带了两个翻译来说服我,我说100M就够了,300M没必要,他还是坚持300M。我们就卖300M设备给他。过不了多长时间,保罗教皇访问韩国,在1.3平方英里土地上,韩国集中了30万人,每个人举起手机用300M拍摄往外传,网络没瘫痪。第二个例子,哈吉保障,之前每个运营商都瘫痪,我们接手以后哈吉保障一次也没有瘫痪过。四、五百万穆斯林祷告前一瞬间,所有人都要关手机,祷告完以后,所有人同时开手机,同时鉴权我们的网络没有瘫痪,很顺利。这都是我们在世界形象的榜样,不会通过媒体传播的方式来改变我们形象。

至于在国外的投资,是因为我们需要。比如,我们在英国投资光芯片工厂,主要为了将来以英国作为这些芯片的出口中心。我们在德国和日本都有这样的工厂,根据需要来确定的,不是为了纯粹说明什么形象,我们不需要形象,只需要订单。

 

32、《观察者网》记者:昨天我们参观了华为股权结构的展厅,有两个感受,产生了两个问题。第一,华为的股权结构走上了一条跟东亚地区主要科技公司完全不同的道路,例如三星电子以及台积电,外国机构和外国人占股比例高达50%以上,三星电子和台积电的股权结构,使西方资本可以从东亚的顶尖科技公司获得资本性的收益,您如何看待差异以及资本性收益这个话题?第二,华为股权结构是华为自己探索一条适合华为自己道路的结构模式,而且华为在过去几年跟西方媒体有过沟通。昨天听下来,目前很多西方媒体都有一些误解,认为并不是全民持股,而是全民的薪酬奖励计划。这就体现了西方的两面性,一方面西方的科技公司比较重视人才、重视技术,有令人尊敬的一面;但另一方面,跟自己不同的模式,会抱有很大误解或者不理解,您认为西方误解的根源在哪里?

任正非:我们对资本不感兴趣,所以就没有研究,西方媒体愿意的话,他们可以去研究,反正我们不会让外面资本进入公司。公司现在的问题是赚钱太多,因为我们不能把价格降低,降低以后,就把所有下面的公司全挤死了,我们就成为“西楚霸王”,最终也是要灭亡的,所以我们不能在产业中这样做。苹果是榜样,永远是做一把大“伞”,让下面小厂家都能活。如果苹果卖萝卜白菜价,全世界就没有其他手机了。我们钱多,用一部分投入战略,但是不横向扩张,就给大学和科学家给予支持。我们开科学家大会,能把全世界这么多顶尖科学家请来,这也是奇迹。

因此,我们不需要资本进来,资本贪婪的本性会破坏我们理想的实现。

记者:西方对于华为股权结构的误解根源在哪里?

任正非:西方不是今天才开始误解的,误解中国都几十年了。只要我们在中国是合法合规的就行了。

 

33、《财新周刊》记者:无论是上次孟晚舟在加拿大被拘押事件,还是这次美国出口管制,美国表面理由是司法部对伊朗的案子。为了解开华为面临的困局,华为会愿意跟美国政府、商务部、司法部去谈吗?

任正非:我们不是已经起诉美国政府了吗?通过律师与它在法庭上谈,它也要出示证据。

记者:所以,您不会私下去谈?

任正非:我也没有私下的管道。你给我特朗普的电话谈?

 

34、《网易》记者:想问一个比较轻松的问题。您去年和小女儿姚安娜和母亲姚凌拍了全家福,令外界非常惊讶。您作为父亲也好,作为丈夫也好,给自己打几分呢?您平时有多少时间去陪家人?您的女儿在哈佛大学读书,未来希望她从事什么样的工作?

任正非:其实我这辈子很对不起小孩,我大的两个小孩,在他们小时候,我就当兵去了,11个月才能回一次家。我回家的时候,他们白天上学,晚上做作业,然后睡觉,第二天一早又上学去了。其实我们没有什么沟通,没有建立起什么感情。小女儿其实也很艰难,因为那时我们公司还在垂死挣扎之中,我基本十几个小时都在公司,要么就在出差,几个月不回家。当时为了打开国际市场,证明我们不是在中国搞腐败成功的,在国外一待就是几个月,小孩基本上很少有往来,很亏欠他们。其实小孩们都是靠自己的努力,自己对自己要求很高。

小女儿在中学的时候,每个星期要跳15小时舞,跳完舞回来才能做作业,晚上一点多才能休息。大学以后基本上做作业到晚上两点多钟,有时候做算法时会做到四、五点钟。小孩很热爱文艺,有人邀请她参加名媛会时,她跟爸爸妈妈商量说她要出席,当时我的态度是支持。因为如果打击这一次,未来她人生的其他路走不顺时,就会说爸爸妈妈堵了她的路,我们还不如挺身而出支持她,她想怎么办就怎么办。人家提出来,要照全家福,我第一个表态坚决支持,发表我们家全家福。我太太还以为我会躲闪的,我认为要支持儿女,都对不起儿女了,还不支持她一下?她好好去学习,自己掌握自己的人生命运。

记者:能不能谈一谈你的太太?

任正非:我的人生有两次婚姻,三个小孩。我的前妻性格很刚烈,在文化革命中曾经是重庆三十万红卫兵的政委,是一个叱咤风云的人。我是连红卫兵都参加不了的逍遥派,大学毕业没有女朋友,别人给我们介绍,她能看上我,我真的不理解,她是天上飞的“白天鹅”,我是地上的“小蛤蟆”,那时除了学习好,家庭环境也不好,我父亲还在“牛棚”里,她怎么就看上我了?我们一起走了二十多年,后来就分开了。现在的太太很温柔、很能干,用二十多年时间专心培养小孩,很有成就。我和姚凌办结婚证这些都是前妻帮忙的,小孩上户口也是前妻帮助的。我前妻与我现在的太太关系也很融洽。

 

35、《人民日报》记者:对于Google停止合作,华为已经出了声明,想请您再评价一下,在操作系统方面会对华为有什么样的影响?

任正非:应该是有影响的。Google是一家非常好的公司,Google在想办法,我们也在想办法,在讨论救济措施。

 

36、《环球时报》记者:我看到海思一直在发各种招聘的信息,包括公众号和微信。现在中国企业都面临这样一个问题,阿里巴巴、腾讯等都需要有更多的高端人才,包括国际人才加入到创新行业中,不知道华为能够拿出什么来,吸引更多的高端人才来补充这样一支队伍?薪资待遇有没有具体的标准?

任正非:使命感。物质待遇肯定会有具体的措施,主要还是给他们使命感,有做成事的机会,让科学家发挥自由度。

记者:前几个月我去欧洲华为各个分公司走了走,看到很多外籍员工对华为的文化非常理解,我自己也在读华为的一些书,我很好奇,是什么样的力量让一个这么明显特征的中国民营企业成长为能够有国际上共通企业文化的国际性企业?

任正非:你在外面看到的书,多数是不真实的,因为他们根据网上资料编的。但是我们不反对,因为他们也要生存。你们可以看华为公司的心声社区,这个比较真实。至于外籍员工,与我们没有本质差别,因为外籍员工也要为客户服务,我们也是为客户服务,价值观怎么不同呢?

记者:现在外界对中国,包括这段时间讨论“996”,中国的企业文化有很多与西方工作价值观相冲突,就很好奇,华为内部是怎么统一和协调的?

任正非:工作价值观,我们还是遵守这些国家的劳动法,来保护他们的合理时间。但是毕竟他们有使命感,没有使命感,他们做不出成绩来。我们的外国科学家其实比中国科学家还拼命,很多科学家三、四十岁还没结婚。

 

37、《科技日报》记者:您刚才谈到华为主战部队越来越精干,你们作为一个商业公司怎么看裁员?裁员这个问题在中国市场比较敏感,但是实际上ICT行业很多公司目前准备裁员或者已经进入裁员,华为从1987年到现在没有大规模裁员。

任正非:其实外面离职的华为员工已经比在职员工多,怎么走出去的?自愿走出去,也是走出去。任何一个业务做得不好,是主官的责任,不是员工的责任,员工在前进过程中也有很多技能,当我们裁掉部门时要给员工有出路。比如,最近表彰了业软部门,他们提出有一万人要走红地毯,我批了同意,后来是几千人走了红地毯。2017年,我们在上海战略务虚会讨论决定缩减业软领域,没有做出成绩来。裁减掉他们时,我还担心有问题,悄悄给人力资源讲先涨一点工资再走,他们没有做出成绩,职级太低了,去其他部门会吃亏。两年后我视察时,发现很多人没有等到涨工资就奔赴新战场了,终端、云的成功,与这被裁减的一万多员工有很大关系。他们奔赴到战略机会点去,既升职升级,又找到了作战机会。裁减的这两年,社会上一点声音没有,公司一点怨声载道都没有,一万多人的转岗完成了。现在很多部门也在裁减,然后把大部分富余人员转岗到主要的战略主攻部队去,少量平庸才会劝退。现在是这样的结构性调整,裁掉部门不是裁掉员工。

 

38、《澎湃》记者:余承东讲,任总之前用的iphone,现在用华为自己的高端手机,您个人用的是P30吗?

任正非:那太先进了,我每次用的是落后手机。先进手机需要重新学习,浪费时间,我不需要新功能。

记者:您一直对CNBG业务比较偏爱?

任正非:不是,对谁爱才骂谁,不爱怎么骂他?余承东挨骂也很疯狂。

记者:怎么看CBG这块业务的成长?

任正非:它毕竟是辅助产业,目的就是赚钱,把钱输送过来,帮助CNBG称霸世界。CNBG拿到钱就冲锋,占领“珠穆朗玛峰”。即使没有粮食种,占住高峰也是对的,就是这个原则,不是偏爱。

记者:我认为,余承东本人还是非常有能力的。

任正非:我没有说他没有能力啊。媒体都在帮余承东说话,你们现场给余承东打个电话。

记者:您对CBG这几年的发展给个总结性的讲法。

任正非:我们在肯定一个部门的时候,不能以表扬为主,而是要校正它不正确的地方,使得它往正确的路上走。我们内部自我批判很厉害,常务董事会内部有时候都会吵架,争论到最后达成共识。

余承东:希望老板多支持,老板一些话可能被大家误读、误解。有些人会拿着老板的话来狂搞我们。

任正非:余承东,你今天的腰杆没撑直。

记者:您给CBG定的1500亿美元?

任正非:他们自己定的,而且肯定是达不到的。

记者:您还是对他们寄予厚望的。

任正非:人们需求进入饱和曲线,他们在饱和曲线前进,付出巨大努力也不容易与追赶者拉开差距,会逐渐缩小。比如,一秒钟下两部电影的难度很大,但是一秒钟下一部和两部电影的对用户的感觉不大。技术投入很大,差距没有拉很大,企业就容易亏损。产业在爬坡阶段领先很快,饱和曲线很难说。因此,以后不能肯定。

 

39、《财经杂志》记者:关于股权的问题,我之前做了一些外围的采访。华为员工很关心一个问题,过去这么多年华为股票一直在上升,他们购买了大量的华为内部股,获得了很丰盛的收益。但是他们现在关心一个问题,未来的不确定性在增加,假设公司遇到了一些问题,分红和收益会不会产生一些影响?

任正非:那当然了,因为购买内部股是自愿的,退出也是自愿的,机制是开放的,不是捆绑的。华为内部股收益也会下降。我们的蓝军首先批评过公司“连续三十年,分红都超过30%,还想分到什么时候”?因此,我每年都在批评常务董事会利润增长太大,战略投入不够。他们去年的检讨放在我桌子上,我还没批。今年特朗普批准了制裁,我们的利润可能会减少一点吧。

记者:既要同甘,也要共苦?

任正非:我们理解一部分员工的思想,员工可以拿走属于自己的东西。

记者:你刚才有提到,只要不让资本进来,什么样的未来发展路径都可以讨论的。关于资本这个问题挺敏感的,之前有各种各样的传言。

任正非:不要相信传言,永远没有资本进来,这是我们公司高层所有人一致达成的意见。我们为理想而奋斗,不为金钱而奋斗。

 

40、《36氪》记者:关于操作系统的事情,具体是哪个部门负责的?之后会不会开源,吸引一些开发者进来?

任正非:我说不清楚是哪个部门负责,我们试试做吧。做一个操作系统的技术难度不大,难度大的是生态,怎么建立起一个生态?这是一个大事情,慢慢来。

 

41、《界面》记者:昨天去看了股权室,我也很震惊,华为公司与员工的权益高度绑定。您只持有1.4%,只有一票否决权,现在很多创始人都是同股同权或者同股要更多的权力,您在华为的影响力巨大的,内核的本质是什么?

任正非:我们年初完成了投票选举新一届持股员工代表会,是经历了一年多酝酿,然后一股一票的投票出来的。酝酿了一年多,为什么社会不知道呢?我也不知道为什么员工会自觉保密到这样的程度。选出的持股员工代表,他就不能代表股票了,他是代表人,一人一票投票表决公司决议。董事会以人数来投票表决决议,常务董事会是在董事会授权下操作日常运作。

 

42、《梨视频》记者:任总从来没有用过一票否决权,您有没有在某个时刻其实很想用它,或者未来有什么情况可以用一票否决权?

任正非:“脱欧”。本来我的一票否决权有一个截止时期,准备到期就不要了,但我们在通过新章程时,正好碰到英国脱欧事件,如果像脱欧那样民主投票,让一个企业的命运葬送了,太可惜了,所以就保留了一票否决权,暂时由我来管。等到我们有一部分团队退出,到核心精英团队形成了小集体以后,我就放弃我个人的权力,把权力让渡给由7个人组成的核心精英团队,出现重大问题时进行否决,业务上的事情一般不需要动用。


Huawei Ren Zhengfei's Interview with Chinese Media

May 21, 2019

Q1 CCTV: I am a reporter for live broadcast. You have a military background, so one thing we have in common should be that we are both punctual. How time flies! Four months ago, in this same place, we had an interview. At that time, the public all felt that Huawei had hit its lowest point. Everyone was so concerned about Huawei, so you started taking many interviews from journalists inside and outside of China. We didn't expect today's situation to be even more complicated, or even more difficult, than four months ago. Just now, another media representative took out a photo of a bullet-ridden aircraft. I was also given this same photo. I heard that you like this photo very much, the photo of the badly damaged fighter aircraft.

Ren: I first saw this photo on wukong.com, feeling that the aircraft was quite like our company. So I sent it to my colleagues. The Carrier BG thought the aircraft in this photo is akin to its situation and started using it for communications.

Later, we found that there were not many problems with the Carrier BG, since it has been getting fully prepared over these past 10-plus years. So our current situation is that we are repairing our "aircraft" during its flight so that it can make its way back home.

CCTV: But this aircraft was able to fly back, because its vital parts, such as its fuel tanks and engines, were not damaged. Only the non-vital parts of its wings were damaged. But if its vital parts were attacked during a flight, how was it possible for it to make its way back?

Ren: I want to tell you two stories about Germany and Japan during World War II. Germany refused to surrender, so its cities were flattened by air-strikes. Japan was also attacked by intensive bombardments. The US army threatened that if Japan did not give up, intense bombing would also flatten the country. At the end of the day, Japan decided upon a compromise, which was to announce the country's surrender but keep their Emperor. By the time the surrender came, the majority of Japan's industrial infrastructure was destroyed, but the country did not suffer the fate of being leveled like Germany.

Back then, there was a famous slogan: "Even if everything else is lost, as long as people remain, they will revitalize the nation." The truth is, Germany was able to revitalize its economy and restore all its houses to the extent before the war in just a few years. The Japanese economy also recovered very quickly. This was attributable to their talent, education systems, and foundation. This is what matters most. So even if we lose everything else, we can't lose our talent. This includes their qualities, skills, and confidence. This is very important.

CCTV: Yesterday (US time), the US issued a temporary license to Huawei. In other words, its restrictions on Huawei can be lifted in the following 90 days. What's your view on this license? What could you do in these 90 days? If the news is true and the US cancelled the imposed restrictions after 90 days, how would you comment on such a reversal?

Ren: First of all, 90 days doesn't mean much to us, and we have prepared. To us, the most important thing is to do our job well. What the US will do is out of our control. I would like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude to the US companies that we work with. Over these 30 years, they have helped us to grow into what we are today. They have made many contributions to us. They have taught us how to get on the right track and run the company. As you know, most of the companies that provide consulting services to Huawei are based in the US, including dozens of companies like IBM and Accenture.

Second, we also have been receiving support from a large number of US component and part manufacturers over all these years. In the face of the recent crisis, I can feel these companies' sense of justice and sympathy towards us. Two days ago, at around two or three a.m., Eric Xu (one of Huawei's rotating chairs) called me, telling me how hard our US suppliers had been working to prepare goods for us. I was in tears. As a Chinese saying goes, a just cause attracts much support, while an unjust one finds little. Today, some US companies are communicating with the US government about the approval.

The US has added Huawei to the Entity List. That is to say if a US company wants to sell something to Huawei, it needs to obtain approval from the US government.

The US is a country ruled by law. US companies must abide by the laws, and so must the real economy. So you guys from the media should not always blame US companies. Instead, you should speak for them. The blame should rest with some US politicians. I don't think we should throw blame indiscriminately without knowing whether it will fall on the right persons. We may end up targeting the wrong persons if we do so. The media should understand that these US companies and Huawei share the same fate. We are both players in the market economy.

US politicians might have underestimated our strengths. I don't want to say too much about this, because Ms. He Tingbo, President of HiSilicon, made all these issues very clear in her letter to employees. And all mainstream newspapers inside and outside of China have reported on this letter.

You touched upon the damaged aircraft just now. We have some non-core products for which we haven't prepared "spare tires", or Plan Bs, so to speak. These products will be phased out sooner or later. So the US move will have some impact on these products. But in sectors where we have the most advanced technologies, at least in the 5G sector, there won't be much impact. Not just that, our competitors won't be able to catch up with us within two to three years.

Q2 People's Daily: I want to ask a question about chips. I noticed that you said in an interview with Japanese media on May 18 that "Huawei does not need chips from the US. There is no problem with Huawei." In a letter to your employees, you mentioned that Huawei has strengths and has made preparations. Can I ask where your strengths come from and what you have done to prepare?

Ren: First, we are always in need of US chips. Our US partners are fulfilling their responsibilities and asking for approval from Washington. If this approval is granted, we will still buy chips from these suppliers. We may even sell chips to US companies (to help the US make more advanced products). We won't exclude our US partners or seek to grow entirely on our own. Instead, we will grow together.

Even if there is an insufficient supply from our partners, we will face no problems. This is because we can manufacture all the high-end chips we need ourselves. In the "peaceful period", we adopted a "1+1" policy – half of our chips come from US companies and half from Huawei. Despite the much lower costs of our own chips, I would still buy higher-priced chips from the US. We cannot be isolated from the world. Instead, we should become part of it.

Our close relationships with US companies are the result of several decades of effort on both sides. These relationships won't be destroyed by a piece of paper from the US government. As long as these companies can obtain approval from Washington, we will continue to buy in large volumes from them. It may be the case that they cannot obtain approval quickly. We have ways to go through this transition period. Once approval is granted, we will maintain our normal trade with these US companies and work together to build an information society for humanity. We don't want to work alone.

We can make chips that are as good as those made by US companies, but this does not mean that we will not buy chips from the US.

Q3 Xinhua News Agency: You once said that Huawei wouldn't be working behind closed doors and would cooperate with others. Now you are saying that Huawei will be doing both things. Does this mean that US trade protectionism and the US ban on Huawei are essentially disrupting global supply chains and causing chaos in the market? The US has been accusing Huawei in many aspects, such as corporate governance and finance. What do you think are the focus areas of the criticisms? Why are they targeting Huawei?

Ren: I'm not a mind reader, so I don't know exactly what [those US] politicians are thinking. I think we should not be the target of US-led campaigns just because we are ahead of the US. 5G is not an atomic bomb; it's something that benefits society.

In terms of network capacity, 5G is 20 times larger than 4G and 10,000 times larger than 2G. The power consumption per bit of our 5G base station is ten times lower than 4G, and the size is 70% smaller. Our 5G base station is very small indeed, about the same size as a briefcase. It's also light – about 20 kilograms. You don't have to build a cell phone tower for 5G base stations, because they can be installed anywhere – on poles or walls. They can work for decades because they are made of anti-corrosion materials. This means that our 5G equipment can be installed even in underground sewage systems. It is especially suitable for European markets, where there are many areas with historical buildings and it's impossible to build giant cell phone towers like those in China. Of course, the existing towers in China won't lay idle, because our 5G base stations can be installed on them too – it's just that we don't need to build new towers.

With our 5G base stations, our customers in Europe can reduce their engineering costs by 10,000 euros per site. They won't need to use cranes for installation, and they won't need to build cell phone towers. In the past, our customers had to use cranes to install huge pieces of base station equipment, and the surrounding roads had to be blocked off during the installation process. Now, they can easily install our 5G base stations by hand. It's super easy.

The bandwidth of 5G is very high – so high that it can support a huge amount of high-definition content and easily transmit 8K video. They're saying that 5G will reduce costs tenfold; in fact it's more like 100-fold. This means that ordinary people can watch high-definition TV programs, and they can learn a lot from these programs. To develop further, every country needs to rely on culture, philosophy, and education. These form the foundation of national development. Therefore, 5G will change our society for the better. Latency on 5G networks is extremely low, so 5G will be rapidly adopted in many industries for all sorts of purposes.

[Regarding the image referred to earlier] The CCTV reporter was concerned about whether the engine of the aircraft was broken. While there might be "holes" in our aircraft wings, we will continue to focus on developing our core and to lead the world in these areas. The more advanced a product is, the more comprehensive its Plan B will be.

Xinhua News Agency: Do you think the international market has been disrupted?

Ren: I don't think so. Europe will not follow in the footsteps of the US, and the majority of US companies are communicating closely with us.

Q4 Global Times: You mentioned the impacts on Huawei. The letter from HiSilicon President has created a lot of excitement in the media. People in the chipset industry take an objective approach to the gaps between companies in China, the US, and other countries in terms of chips and other core components. What do you think is the position of Huawei's in-house products and R&D? The letter also gave an assurance that Huawei can ensure supply continuity. Is that assurance true? Is there any critical point? Where is it?

Ren: I think that if you feel worked up about something, you should start by taking a cold shower. In my opinion, what's most important is to be calm and level-headed. Getting over-excited and shouting slogans is of no use if our capabilities are not strong. The important thing is to work hard towards success.

It's worth learning from US companies in terms of their depth and breadth in science and technology. We lag far behind in many aspects. Some small US companies are providing super advanced products. We have only focused on our business and become a leader, but we haven't attempted to compare ourselves to the US as a nation. On a business level, I think the gap is quite small between Huawei and certain US companies. On the national level, however, there are huge gaps between China and the US.

The gaps on the national level have much to do with economic bubbles in China. There are bubbles in many sectors, including peer-to-peer (P2P) lending, the Internet, finance, and real estate. There are copycat products, which are also bubbles. As a result, bubbles are appearing in academia, too. Developing a new fundamental theory takes several decades. If academics focus more on shouting slogans than on developing solid theories, then our country will not become stronger in the decades to come. We should keep our feet on the ground and concentrate on our work.

Q5 The Paper: My question is about chips. The letter from Ms. He Tingbo, HiSilicon President, was very inspiring. Records show that HiSilicon was established in 2004. After so many years of efforts, you can produce your own chips for many purposes. How did you make the chip plan in the first place? How did you or Huawei decide to make your own chips? Ms. He said that Huawei began planning for the most extreme conditions many years ago. During an interview two days ago, you said that Huawei no longer needs US chips. Can you tell us more about the planning process? Is the planning result in line with your current situation? How well can you serve customers if the US companies stop supplying chips to you?

Ren: We have made a lot of sacrifices – we have paid very little attention to ourselves and our families, especially our parents. We have done all this because our goal is to make it to the very top. Nowadays, we cannot help but shouting our goal out loud: We want to be the global leader. We want to be No. 1 in the world. In the past, we didn't let our employees say it out loud, because we thought it might cause conflicts with the US.

In early 2000, we were hesitant, and we wondered if it would be possible for Huawei to wear an "American cowboy hat". So we decided to sell Huawei to a US company for about 10 billion US dollars. A contract was signed with this company, and all relevant procedures were completed. The deal was ready to be completed once it received the approval of the US company's Board of Directors. While we were waiting for approval, the negotiation team, including me, all put on floral-print clothes, running and playing ping pong on the beach.

While we were waiting, the Board of Directors of the US company was reelected. Their new board chair was somewhat short-sighted and rejected the acquisition deal. If we had been sold to this company, we would have been able to get our American cowboy hat and try to take the world by storm. After this deal failed, our senior executives were deciding whether to sell Huawei to someone else. All of our younger executives unanimously said no. I could not reject this, so I replied, "We will have to square off against the US when we reach the top. We need to get prepared." Since then, we have been considering the question of what happens when we meet the US at the top, and have begun to make preparations for this. That said, we will ultimately embrace each other because we want to work together with them to make contributions to society.

The Paper: Other Huawei executives have stated that Huawei is able to continue serving customers. Will the US ban affect your major customers and business? How will you respond?

Ren: We will certainly be able to continue serving our customers. Our mass production capacity is huge, and adding Huawei to the Entity List won't have a huge impact on us. We are making progress in bidding worldwide.

Our growth will slow down, though not by as much as everyone imagines. In the first quarter of this year, our revenue grew 39% over the same period last year. This rate decreased to 25% in April, and may continue decreasing towards the end of this year. But the US ban will not lead to negative growth or harm the development of our industry.

Q6 Science and Technology Daily: If the US cuts off the supply chain, how will the industry be impacted? Two days ago, I saw that Fang Zhouzi (an Internet celebrity) tweeted "If the spare tire is good, why not use it before a blowout?" What's your opinion on it?

Ren: If we use spare tires in all our products, that means we are seeking the so-called "independent innovation". The main purpose of independent innovation is to become a dominant player. But we want to have partners all over the world. For that reason, his idea of using the spare tire before a blowout is not on our minds. He doesn't understand our strategic thinking. We don't want to hurt our partners. We want to help them have robust financial statements, even if it means we have to make adjustments.

As I mentioned, we don't intend to stop using the components of US companies, but we haven't told them about this. We hope US companies can continue to be our suppliers, so that we can serve humanity together. Previously, we've shared information about our chip development with our suppliers. We've even shared our research results with them. We outsource production to our suppliers. That's why the suppliers are so kind to us. Again, to answer the question "If the spare tire is good, why not use it before a blowout?", spare tires are backups. Why should we use them before our current tires burst?

Science and Technology Daily: How will the industry be impacted if the US does cut off the supply chain?

Ren: Our company will not end up with an extreme supply shortage. We have got well prepared. At the beginning of this year, I predicted that something like this would occur two years later, and that the US would not take action before the US lawsuit against us was settled in court. We were quite sure that they would take action against us whatever the result was. We thought we would have two years to make preparations. But when Meng Wanzhou was arrested, it sparked everything off.

You may know that we were also working during the last Spring Festival holiday, and I paid visits to our employees working during the holiday. In China alone, 5,000 service personnel, such as security guards, cleaners, and canteen workers, stayed to serve our "fighters". They received salaries several times higher than normal. The company paid double for food from suppliers, and paid service personnel extra. Many of our staff didn't even go home during the Spring Festival. In order to save time for work, they made makeshift beds on the floor to take an afternoon nap. Also during the May Day holiday, many of our staff chose to stay here.

Q7 NetEase: Speaking of Plan B, how much has Huawei invested in this plan over the years? If Plan B is not put into use, will Huawei continue to invest in the plan?

Ren: We have invested so much that I cannot give a concrete figure. For both Plan A and Plan B, the budget and headcount were allocated together. Previously, Plan A received most of the budget, but now most of the budget will be allocated to Plan B. I don't know exactly how much the budget is. Every report I receive is several pages long. And instead of asking questions about every single component, I just do a general review. Making a plan is just one step. We have to identify the key phases for each component. So we are preparing little by little. Otherwise, we would not have hired 80,000 to 90,000 R&D engineers.

Q8 Financial Weekly: After the US export control goes into effect, Huawei's suppliers in Japan, Europe, and Taiwan are expected to help Huawei a lot. If this export control fails, do you think the US government will put pressure on companies like TSMC? Huawei can produce its own chips, but it does not have the capabilities of the entire value chain.

Ren: If more companies refuse to succumb to the pressure, then even more will follow. Don't worry too much about this. After all, this is not happening.

Financial Weekly: Considering Google's recent action, users in Europe are very worried that Huawei phones will not be able to use the latest Android system in the future. What's your opinion on this?

Ren: Google is a good company – a highly responsible company. They are also trying to persuade the US government to solve this problem. We're now discussing viable solutions for this, and our experts are still working on this. So I can't give you a detailed answer today.

Q9 qq.com: How long will this tough situation last? Will this be a turning point in Huawei's development?

Ren: You are asking the wrong person; you should ask President Trump this question. I think there are two sides to this. Of course, we will be affected, but it will also inspire China to develop its electronics industry in a systematic and pragmatic manner. In the past, China threw a lot of money at developing the industry, but it turned out that this approach didn't work. To build bridges, roads, and houses, maybe it's true that we just need to invest money, but to develop chips, money alone is not enough. We need scientists, physicists, and chemists as well. How many of our people are truly studying hard? How many doctorate papers bring true insights? Under such conditions, it is very difficult for China to succeed by relying on its own innovation, so why not take a cross-border approach to innovation? We can establish innovation centers in many countries. We can establish research centers in any locations that have the capabilities we need.

A lot of talent has returned to China, which is very important. But China's personal income taxes are relatively high. If talented people returned to China from abroad, they would have to pay a lot of taxes. We cannot expect them to act like Lei Feng forever – Lei Feng gave everything he had to the country and to the party. Although they are all top experts, there are no incentives for them, and they even have to pay higher taxes. Recently, I heard that the personal income tax rate will be cut to 15% in the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area, but how exactly will this policy be enforced? Will people entitled to this policy need to get a hukou, or a job in this region? If yes, what's the point of this policy? There should be a flow of scientists. If they work eight hours every day at the same place, are they true scientists? We need to create opportunities for scientists to come back to China.

The first major shift of talent in the world occurred with the move of three million Jews from the Soviet Union to Israel. Israel then became a scientific and technological hub. The second shift is underway. The US is not open to foreign countries and lots of talent cannot engage in classified research. A well-known US media outlet wrote an article, asking the US one question: "If China invented a cancer drug, would it pose a threat to US national security?" A US cancer center dismissed three Chinese scientists, which is the reason the journalist asked this question.

As a result, many scientists have lost confidence in working in the US. Why not take this opportunity to welcome them back to China? But they might ask, "How? In China, it is difficult for our children to enroll in schools; we cannot buy cars because we have no hukou; and we have to pay high taxes." We need to adjust our policies to attract talent from around the world. 200 years ago, the US was just a barren land of Native Americans. It was the right policies that turned the US into the global leader it is today. China's civilization is 5,000-years old. With such a solid foundation, we need to create favorable policies to attract talent from around the world to start businesses in China.

East European countries are relatively underdeveloped, but a large number of leaders, scientists, and financiers in the US are East Europeans. Why don't we welcome talent from these countries to China, or establish research centers in those countries? We can establish theoretical research facilities with China as the center to fight against US restrictions. If we stick to our current approach, it will be difficult to succeed. China is weak in basic theories, though it has seen some progress over the past few years.

I have emphasized the importance of mathematics at the national science conference, and I heard that graduates majoring in mathematics can now more easily find jobs than in the past. How many of us are willing to study mathematics? I didn't major in math. I once said I wanted to find a good university to study math after I retired. The president of a university asked me why. I replied I wanted to study the Second Law of Thermodynamics. He then asked why again. I said I wanted to study the origin of the universe. He said he would welcome me as a student. I still haven't retired yet, so it looks like I won't be able to go. When I was an engineering student, I studied higher mathematics, which is about the very basics of mathematics. China must remain pragmatic and work harder to make changes in mathematics, physics, chemistry, neurology, brain science, and many other disciplines. Only by doing so can we secure a foothold in this world.

China's philosophy to date is mostly about metaphysics. Although some have adopted Buddhism, all the texts are in Sanskrit, and they have not been translated into Chinese. The West has promoted metaphysics and mechanical materialism, giving birth to disciplines like physics, chemistry, mathematics, and geometry. That's why they have advanced industry. Based upon their strong industry, they have built industrialized nations and led the whole world.

I don't mean that metaphysics is useless, though it focuses on virtual things that don't exist in the real world. The gaming industry is developing rapidly in China. Many of our modes of production may be virtualized. About 50% of AI scientists are Chinese, and if they are not welcome in other countries, we should welcome them here in China. They can then work on platforms at the bottom layer, providing us with a solid foundation.

I believe that if we can bring in outstanding talent, it will be good for our reform. If we keep emphasizing independent innovation, I think we are wasting our precious time.

Q10 National Business Daily: Has the Hongmeng OS been used on a small scale within Huawei?

Ren: Sorry, I can't answer this question today. We can make our own operating system, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it will replace other operating systems. We need to use operating systems for our work in artificial intelligence and the Internet of Everything, but I'm not clear on which are used and which are not. So I can't really answer your question yet.

National Business Daily: Many articles these days are reporting on "Huawei shocks" – that is, how Huawei has been shocking the whole world.

Ren: Our staff are not sensitive to such reports. None of us has been shocked, because they are nothing special to us. The articles online often exaggerate a lot. For example, it was reported online that Infineon stopped their supply to us. No such thing has happened. It was a made-up story. If you really want to know what's going on with us, you can visit our Xinsheng Community. We don't ban accounts, even if people criticize the company there. In fact, the HR department reviews how people are criticizing us. If anyone provides especially constructive criticism, the department will look into their performance over the past three years. If they are high performers, they will be transferred to the Secretariat to help with some specific issues. After being trained at our "Headquarters of the General Staff" for half a year, they will be sent to other departments. These people have a lot of potential to eventually become leaders. On the contrary, blindly singing our praises online may make us complacent, because it's no more than empty talk. When people post specific criticisms on our Xinsheng Community, we will analyze the situation accordingly. Without self-criticism, we wouldn't be surviving today.

Q11 Caijing: I want to ask you a question about Huawei's Plan B, which many people are concerned about. Ten years ago, you began to show a sense of crisis and talk about how international situations would affect Huawei.

Ren: All my speeches regarding Plan B published by Huawei's Executive Office are publicly available. I don't remember exactly when I began to talk about it, but I have repeatedly mentioned our Plan B. People just didn't pay much attention to it until the recent attack that the US launched against Huawei.

Caijing: Over the past several years, you have shown a great sense of crisis, made preparations at both the macro and micro levels, i.e. in both strategy and how to ensure business continuity. When what you have envisioned becomes a reality and the attacks against Huawei become more serious than what you previously thought, do you have any new ideas? We have seen too many articles talking about how trade frictions between China and the US affect Huawei. When the challenge truly comes, do you have any new ideas?

Ren: Business continuity is all about our Plan B, or our "spare tire" plan. Spare tires ensure that when cars break down, they can continue running after tires are replaced. We have ensured our business continuity step by step. In fact, many parts we use in our products have been put into production. Despite this, we are open to parts from outside the company. Half of our parts are produced by other companies. I once said in an article that we should buy at least 50 million chipsets from Qualcomm every year. So we have never excluded or resisted foreign companies.

The world's largest spare tires are atomic bombs. What can they be used for? Since World War II, they have never been used again. Senior government officials in China have often worked on atomic and hydrogen bombs. And their loyalty to the country also counts. Those who are both capable and excel at technology can be promoted to a minister or provincial governor. Some can even become governors by age 40. I really envy them. When I was 40, I was still finding a job.

Spare tire is now a buzz word. In fact, it's quite normal practice in our company. He Tingbo has become well known because of her letter regarding Plan B. She published the letter just during the night when the US issued the ban on Huawei. She just couldn't bear it anymore. She has been through a lot these years. She felt bad. Her team has been working so hard, but they just couldn't keep their chins up.

Caijing: So you mean that spare tires are always available at Huawei and you don't know whether they will be used.

Ren: Spare tires are certainly useful. They are part of our solutions, instead of being independent of them. We will use them on a rolling basis when necessary.

Q12 Caijing: Now people have two completely different sentiments towards Huawei. Some have shown great patriotism and escalated their support of Huawei as a patriotic act. Some think that support toward Huawei has become entwined with patriotism toward the whole country; in other words, people will not be considered patriotic unless they support Huawei. This situation is now becoming more serious.

Ren: My children prefer Apple products over Huawei's. Does it mean that they don't love Huawei? Of course not. I have mentioned this quite a lot, and Richard Yu (CEO of Huawei's Consumer BG) was mad about me – he saw it as me promoting other companies' products over Huawei's. But this is the reality: We cannot simply say that one is patriotic if they use Huawei products and they are not if they don't use Huawei products. Huawei's products are ultimately commodities. People use them if they like them. Politics should be left out of it. Huawei is just a company. We have never said anything about contributing to Chinese national pride in our advertising. At our latest oath-taking ceremony, someone might have shouted something along those lines, but we immediately issued a file to discourage shouting out such slogans. They can hold celebration parties and give out medals. It's okay to say things like this privately in their spare time, sure, but we must never stir populism.

I often use a lot of examples just to throw some cold water on Huawei. We should not promote populism; populism is detrimental to the country. To have a promising future, China must be more open. Following the recent China-US negotiations, CCTV said China should further reform and open up. I was very happy to hear that. In fact, we should have reformed and opened up earlier. China has made a commitment to the WTO and we need to honor this commitment after we benefit from it. We should make some contributions so that we can unite more friends around us. China has too much money. Why are we only putting it in the US? Why not lend some to Europe, Russia, and Africa? One might worry about their ability to repay it. These countries use their national credit as collateral. Well, maybe they can't repay it this year, but what about in 100 years? We don't have an urgent need for the money anyway. Doing this would help disperse our risks. Why does China only buy agricultural products from certain countries? It could also buy from Ukraine. That would contribute to their economy.

Q13 Science and Technology Daily: You've mentioned that developing chips requires not only money but also physicists and mathematicians. As a company, Huawei, as well as you personally, have repeatedly talked about basic education and basic research, and we also know that Huawei focuses on this area from some of your advertisements. What specific actions is Huawei taking in basic education and basic research? What kind of support will this provide to Huawei's future development?

Ren: First, we have 26 centers of expertise for R&D globally. We currently have over 700 mathematicians, 800 physicists, and 120 chemists working at Huawei. We have an Institute of Strategic Research, which provides a large amount of funding to well-known professors at top universities around the world. We don't expect return on this investment. The way we sponsor research is similar to how investment works according to the US Bayh-Dole Act. It's the universities that benefit from the investment. By doing so, we will work with more scientists researching technologies at different stages.

5G standards are widely considered to have a huge impact on society. Few people would imagine that they originated from a mathematics paper written by Turkish professor Erdal Arikan over a decade ago. We discovered this paper two months after its publication. Then we started to do research, perform analysis, and apply for patents based on this paper. Thousands of Huawei employees have been involved in this research. It took us a decade to convert the math paper into technologies and standards. We have the most 5G standard-essential patents in the world – about 27% of the total.

Professor Arikan is not a Huawei employee, but we sponsor his lab so that he can take on more PhD students, whom we also support. We also sponsor a university professor in Japan. He once had four PhD students, all four of whom later joined Huawei but continued to work at his office. Then he recruited four more PhD students to work for him, with all eight working for him at the same time. All those papers belong to them, not us. If we need to use their academic outcomes, we need to pay them. This approach is similar to the US Bayh-Dole Act. We use such approach to work with more scientists.

We held a global scientist conference last week, and I attended the conference remotely through video. Several brilliant young scientists, all doctorate degree holders, attended the conference and introduced the technology to me. They explained to me what each of those papers would mean to society in the future. We constantly have this kind of communication around the world. This enables us to absorb new ideas, and also helps them understand our requirements. This way, we are able to constantly inform each other.

When it comes to winning talent, Western companies are more far-sighted than we are. They identify talent and then recruit them to work as interns, providing dedicated training to them during their internship. This is different from the traditional job seeking method graduates follow in China.

Now we have more opportunities to compete with US companies in terms of recruitment, but we are not strong enough to attract the talent. We give job offers to some excellent, very talented students as early as their second year of university. For example, students from the Novosibirsk State University have been the champions or runners-up in the International Collegiate Programming Contest for six consecutive years. Google paid salaries five or six times higher than normal to employ them. Starting this year, we will pay even more than Google to attract such talent to work on innovation in Russia. We will join the competition for talent.

We don't require scientists to always be successful. Failures are also a form of success, because they develop talent. In this way, we are able to constantly move forward.

Q14 jiemian.com: I visited Huawei's lab and saw many inventions, such as anti-corrosion equipment and heat conduction. They seem to be based on chemical theories we learn in high school. These applications are magical. Is this a reflection of what you call basic science and basic education? What support will such basic science bring to Huawei at this critical moment?

Ren: Actually, even junior high school students learn the general equations for a nuclear chain reaction, but it's not an easy task to build an atomic bomb. Basic science seems to be simple, but it's difficult to apply it in practice. Therefore, some foreign inventions may look simple, but they are based on numerous other inventions. A small component may be developed based on thousands or even tens of thousands of patents.

Q15 Sina: You are talking about enhanced investment in mathematics and basic disciplines. What about Huawei's level of investment in the world? What made you recognize the importance of basic disciplines? What are your goals and expectations for future investment?

Ren: Let's look at an example. The camera of the HUAWEI P30 smartphone is a reflection of how mathematics can be applied in practice. Photos are not simply captured but calculated through mathematics. Human eyes are equivalent to about 100 million lenses, but a camera only has one lens. Our smartphone is able to use calculations to divide the image captured by the light sensors in a single lens into tens of millions of visual lenses, and then reproduce the image.

Mathematicians in our company have a slogan – Making smartphones that outperform human eyes. I once criticized this idea in an internal speech. I think it's unnecessary. However, they are stubborn and I can't change their minds. They say our smartphones can capture an image of the moon and views a thousand kilometers away. This may be true, because mathematics can help restore weak light signals.

When I visited our mathematicians in our research center in Nice, France, I said, "The sea and sky of Nice are blue. Why are the formations developed by our mathematicians also based on a blue color?" Previously, the images captured by our smartphones were bluish, but now this seems to have been corrected.

Our strategic "spare tires" have contributed to the fast development of our smartphones. Some strategic "spare tires" developed for our network business were not used in that area, and were transferred to the consumer business. The consumer business has benefited a lot from these resources, and is able to upgrade its products every three months. Most contributions come from mathematicians. Physicists have also contributed to the development of trichromatic sensors.

Therefore, business in the electronics industry is impossible to develop if we are still relying on components manufactured by others. There are also mathematical achievements in other vendors' components, but you need to pay more money to gain access to what they developed. I think we should strive to be the world leader in this area.

Q16 Huanqiu.com: For a period the US has been attacking Huawei, and also urging its European allies to put pressure on or even block Huawei. If the US continues to push its European allies to close their markets to Huawei, will you visit 10 Downing Street or the Élysée Palace in person to persuade them to open their doors to Huawei through more direct and effective methods?

Ren: I used to have afternoon tea at 10 Downing Street. They asked me how I learned to catch up with the rest of the world, and I said it was the afternoon tea. Therefore, they received me with afternoon tea at Downing Street. We've been communicating with leaders of different countries. Every country has their own interests. The campaign of the US will not be powerful enough to call on everyone to follow them.

Q17 ifeng.com: I've been closely following what phone manufacturers can do to support accessibility for people with disabilities since last year, because technological progress plays a very important role in helping these people. Huawei is a company with lofty aspirations. This year's Global Accessibility Awareness Day fell on May 16 last week. As a leading tech company, what has Huawei done to promote accessibility and inclusion for people with disabilities? What plan do you have in this area?

Ren: During one of my trips to Japan, I tried a pair of special glasses made by our company that allowed me to clearly see employees working thousands of miles away, and I could provide guidance and instructions to them. With these glasses, I could see all drawings, and know immediately whether something I was looking at was correct or not. This is something we are doing now, but I don't know whether these devices have been launched in the market.

Theoretically, I think we will be able to support people with disabilities in future. I don't know exactly what progress we have made on this front. I'll ask someone to check, but I do believe that theoretically speaking we can stimulate people's senses through the cranial nerves.

The wireless glasses I mentioned just now allowed me to see the engineering work our employees were doing thousands of miles away. Our scientists showed this new product to me. But it has not been launched in the market.

Q18 ifeng.com: Apple has been paying a lot of attention to basic education, and they have done a very good job in this area. iPads and iPhones are very useful to help children learn. Huawei also takes basic education, including basic disciplines, very seriously. Actions speak louder than words. Specifically, what has Huawei done in this area? Can you share your ideas about education?

Ren: The basic responsibility for improving people's competences and qualifications lies with the government. No company can assume the responsibility for improving the capabilities of our nation. We talk about education, but that does not mean we should get involved in this domain.

The only way for China to achieve a positive outcome in future competition with the US is to improve the quality of education. As for commodities that can be used to help improve education, that is a separate matter.

To improve the quality of education, I believe the most important thing is to show respect for teachers. If teachers are well respected across society, more people will want to become teachers. Teachers are highly respected and well-paid in Shenzhen. That's why we have seen news reports about 253 candidates applying for a single vacancy in some schools in Shenzhen.

Huawei has helped Tsinghua University High School establish a school called Tsinglan School. The president of that school said it will become the best school in China, because the tuition fees there are extremely high. The school only enrolls around 2,000 students, and the admission pool is open to all of society. Many Huawei employees want to send their children to the school, and some asked me to help them get their children enrolled. I told them that there was nothing I could do about that.

What I'm trying to say is that we can significantly improve the quality of education only when the social and economic status of teachers improves. Why do I have so much to say about this? Both of my parents were rural school teachers working in a remote mountainous town in Guizhou Province, but they didn't allow their children to become teachers. If even teachers discourage their own children from becoming teachers, how can our country have a bright future?

I saw and experienced the many hardships my parents faced as a result of being teachers at that time in history – low social ranking, discrimination, and poor pay, so I never considered becoming a teacher myself.

Q19 China Business Journal: I have two questions. First, the consumer business now accounts for the largest part of Huawei's revenue, followed by the carrier and enterprise businesses. What proportions do you think these three businesses will take in Huawei's revenue in five or ten years' time? Second, in the current situation, how would you define the future role of HiSilicon in Huawei?

Ren: The role of HiSilicon is a support team to Huawei, one that moves forward in tandem with the operating team of the company. It can be likened to a fuel truck, a crane, or a field medic that moves forward together with the core operation.

As for our three business groups, we don't take the view that the most profitable one is the most important. Only the department that is responsible for building network connections will be able to become number one in the world. It is the very department that has come under attacks from the US. I have compared it to a badly damaged aircraft. Actually, we have realized that this department does not face as many difficulties as others because it has been preparing for a long time. Our 5G, optical transmission, and core network technologies are free from the pressure that is being put on this department, and these technologies will be the world leaders for many years to come.

Q20 China Business News: The assembly order from HiSilicon has gone viral online recently. This unit has been hiring talent from around the world. When will it become an independent unit in the future?

Ren: The answer is never. HiSilicon is a support team to Huawei's operating team, and will never become an independent unit. As I just described, to our core operation, it is like a fuel truck, crane, or field medic. Our operating team is the department responsible for building network connections. It may not necessarily generate the highest revenue for our company in the future, but it is the strategic high ground. The US has taken administrative measures against Huawei because it could not seize the strategic high ground. We will never give up this strategic high ground just for the sake of making more money. HiSilicon will never become part of our operating team and steal the thunder at Huawei.

Q21 China Business News: We know Huawei has made preparations in terms of business continuity management, but a server or base station involves too many parts and components. Why are you so optimistic?

Ren: We will make a list of the problems we face and solve them one by one.

Q22 People's Daily: I have a question about R&D. Huawei has invested heavily in R&D. In which areas will you focus your future investments? What technological preparations will you make?

Ren: We have been working on a single point for three decades. At first, we had several dozen and several hundred employees focusing on this point, then we had tens of thousands, and now we have over a hundred thousand. We have been focusing all of our energy on this same single point, which inevitably results in breakthroughs. Every year we invest 20 billion US dollars in R&D, and no listed company has ever had the courage to invest so much money into a single area like we do.

We have been working on the information transmission domain. Our Consumer BG works on the "water taps", while our Carrier BG works on the "pipes". The harder we work on this domain, the more likely it will be for us to lead the world and maintain our position. In addition, we will continue to increase our investment in R&D.

I do not think that some downward pressure on our financial performance will affect our investment in R&D. Our employees are not greedy; they have enough money to make ends meet. I have even made comments about the partners of many of our R&D employees for being frugal. Some people asked me how I could identify our dedicated employees. I said if we talked to those people who purchased several items at luxury stores, and found out that their partners worked at Huawei, then those Huawei employees are our dedicated employees. After they make money at Huawei, their partners should be able to spend it, so that they are motivated to make more money.

Huawei will continue working in the ICT domain, and will not enter other domains. Rumor has it that Huawei will engage in automobile manufacturing, but that's not true. Our connected vehicle products serve world-leading carmakers, and mainly include vehicle-mounted computing and electronics products. This may develop into a huge industry. We work with companies in the automotive industry to achieve autonomous driving. However, putting Huawei's logo on a car sent by our partner does not mean that we will manufacture cars. We will not randomly enter other domains.

Q23 Sohu: You take basic education very seriously. Is it possible for you to become involved in basic education in one way or another in the future?

Ren: Basic education is the responsibility of the government. Companies should focus on their own business. We don't want to be distracted during our business operations by becoming involved in basic education.

Building massive networks for humanity is Huawei's biggest social responsibility. We have connected three billion people around the world, including people in some African regions where Western companies don't want to do business because they cannot make money. If Huawei collapsed, it would have a huge impact on the world.

Huawei will not engage in education. We are even going to downsize our operating team, and get rid of some less important departments. Employees working in these departments can continue to move forward alongside us as our partners.

During the last Chinese Spring Festival vacation, when Huawei employees worked overtime, more than 5,000 people provided services. During this period, we doubled the prices we paid for the services we received and promptly provided extra rewards to these people.

Q24 21st Century Business Herald: In our eyes, Huawei's management philosophy is Mr. Ren's management philosophy. What do you think is the essence of Huawei's management philosophy? International management theories have long been dominated by the West. Do you think now is the time for China's management philosophy to be exported to the outside world? There are now many books about Huawei's success formula. Is there really such a formula for success? Can others copy Huawei's model?

Ren: Huawei has no philosophy. Personally, I have never studied philosophy or carefully read any philosophy book. I've never met the authors of those books you mentioned. It's possible that they just made them up. The so-called Huawei philosophy is casually written, and has nothing special. If there really is such a thing as Huawei philosophy, I would say it is to "stay customer-centric and create value for customers".

This is because our money comes from our customers' pockets. There are three ways to obtain customers' money. The first is to rob, which violates the law. The second is stealing, which is not the right way, either. If you stole money, you would be detained in the police station. The third is to have our customers willingly give us their money. To make that happen, we must provide them with quality goods and services that they need. That's our one and only secret of success.

I'll take our company's cafés as an example. They are doing very well. Why? They do business carefully and sincerely, and don't play tricks. At first, five or six Huawei employees managed these cafés and lost money. They had high salaries and company shares, but lost money in the cafés businesses.

Then I told them to start up their own cafés. This way, they ended up earning 700,000–800,000 yuan every year. Some people at headquarters said they wanted to investigate these cafés, as they were suspicious of the reason why these cafés had started making a profit. I told them that every time they investigated, I would dismiss one of them. Why? Because their teams were overstaffed and couldn't focus on the right things.

As long as the cafés pay their rental, water, and electricity expenses, meet sanitary requirements, and maintain an appeal to our employees, why do you bother minding something that is none of your business? That's also why Huawei has a very small logistic team. It only has 703 employees but provides support for over 180,000 Huawei people across 170 countries and regions around the world.

Q25 Xinhua News Agency: I've recently read a speech you delivered at a Representatives' Commission meeting. In the speech, you described Huawei's approval of the Charter of Corporate Governance as an institutional development milestone. The document also described Huawei's corporate governance structure. What is the direction of Huawei's governance?

Ren: Actually, our governance structure and Charter of Corporate Governance have been published on our Intranet. The election of the new Board of Directors took more than a year, and more than 90,000 people were engaged in the process. They keep learning about and communicating these documents, but the media is not very interested. As to your question, I cannot fully explain this to you today. It is a comprehensive system.

Xinhua News Agency: What kind of company does Huawei want to become in the future? Or which direction does Huawei want to move along?

Ren: We will not allow capital injection. Besides that, we are open to discuss anything.

Q26 CCTV: We have a deep impression that Mr. Ren has a very strong sense of crisis, even in times of peace. For example, Huawei began to have a Plan B for chips more than a decade ago. I'm very curious about how you got this sense of crisis at first?

Ren: You would build a sense of crisis if you had been beaten by others many times.

Q27 36kr: In your answers to many questions, you said Huawei has a Plan B and you are optimistic about the current situation. What is your biggest concern at the moment? This event has affected your family members. Have your daily exchanges with your family influenced your decision-making?

Ren: They detained my daughter, trying to shake my will, but my family's encouragement has solidified my will. In her letter to me, my daughter said she would be mentally prepared for the long run. She is very optimistic. That has greatly reassured me and eased my pressure. I need to go beyond myself, my family, and Huawei to think about the world's issues. Otherwise, I cannot stay objective.

International journalists were very candid when they talked with me. Our public relations department has published full transcripts of these interviews. I will give them to you today. Why are we speaking out so frequently? If we took a narrow view, we would be on the opposite side to the Western media, and even to you. However, I should avoid the influence of personal opinions, so that we could discuss issues on an equal footing.

Most of Huawei's executives do not consider issues based on their personal interests or our corporate interests. We are a global company, and we have many friends that accept and support us around the world.

Q28 CCTV: I am very interested in proprietary intellectual property rights and independent innovation. Many people think that proprietary intellectual property rights and independent innovation are the only way to ensure survival. You mentioned just now that HiSilicon has created some "spare tires" to support Huawei's long-term survival, and this is built on your independent innovation. But you also said that you would give up non-critical parts of an "aircraft" if that's the right thing to do, because you don't want to waste your time and energy. Why is there such a big difference?

Ren: If you mean the spirit of independent innovation, then I would encourage it. Innovation should build on human civilizations. This is the right approach. All scientists are independent innovators. Why? They crack some mysterious questions that no one can understand.

But we must understand that we need to stand on the shoulders of our predecessors to promote scientific and technological innovation. HiSilicon does not innovate independently out of nothing. They have paid a huge amount of royalties to obtain licenses for the use of others' intellectual property rights. They have signed cross-licensing agreements, some of which are permanent licenses. Our innovations are intertwined with others, and we have produced our own innovations building on those of others.

We agree that we need to encourage the spirit of independent innovation. But we must clearly define it. If you make something that others have already produced, you cannot use it. If you want to use it, you have to pay for their original ideas. This is what the law says. Patents are granted to those who filed for them first.

Alexander Stepanovich Popov first discovered radio waves, but the Soviet Union suspended the announcement of this news for the sake of confidentiality. Instead, Guglielmo Marconi in Italy filed the first application, so he was granted a patent for the invention of radio waves. Many people thought airplanes were invented by the Wright brothers, but actually, the Wright brothers were not the inventors. They were just the first to fly the airplanes. Nikolay Zhukovsky was considered the real inventor of airplanes. His work on fluid-mechanic equations helped lay the foundation for aerodynamics and lift the wings.

Why are our jet engines still not good enough today? Who invented jet engines? The Chinese.

When Deng Xiaoping visited the UK to buy Spey engines, Spey agreed to sell their engines to China. When Deng asked further whether they would sell their engines for military use, they also said they would. At that time, what China wanted was to buy civil engines and use them to make civil aircrafts.

Later on, the British also sold engines for military use. The engines in China's Xian H-6 bombers were also bought from the UK.

When Deng stood up and saluted the British scientists on-site, the British scientists stood up to return a salute. They said, "We have to thank the great inventions from Chinese scientists."

When Deng returned to China, he managed to find out who invented this engine. It was Wu Zhonghua. Where was this guy? He was breeding pigs in Hubei Province. So Deng decided to assign the inventor to serve as the Director of the Institute of Engineering Thermophysics in Beijing. Why couldn't we build on Wu's work and delve deeper into it? Why couldn't we make theoretical breakthroughs in jet engines?

Now, aircraft engine design is an experimental science, not a theoretical science. But aircraft design must be a theoretical science. You can have a look at a speech about aircrafts by Sergey Kuzhugetovich Shoygu in Russia.

According to him, US aircrafts are very sophisticated and they can fly for 4,000 to 5,000 hours. But Russian aircrafts are not that advanced and can only fly for 1,000 hours.

Shoygu asked, can an aircraft fly for 1,000 hours during wartime? Actually, most of them are destroyed before they get the chance to fly for 1,000 hours. So why bother creating an aircraft that can fly for 4,000 or 5,000 hours? What's more, they are very expensive. So the Russians have determined their aircraft design principles according to their actual needs.

He said that an aircraft was not flying very fast because it lacked a flat metal surface. So the Russians added layers of laminar film to the wings of the aircraft. This helped solve the lubrication issue at high-velocities. This way, Russian aircrafts could fly very fast as well.

The stealth principle of the F-22 stealth fighter was invented by mathematicians from the Soviet Union in the 1950s. They said that the diamond cut surface had stealth functionality. But after a long period of research, the Soviet Union concluded that this function was useless. Why? Because they couldn't make it happen.

They approved the publication of the paper on this principle. When the Americans read the paper, they thought they had found a treasure. It took the US 20 years to produce the F-22 stealth fighter. But now, our meter-wave radars can detect F-22 fighters.

In fact, there were many scientists doing original research in China in the 1950s, but now there are bubbles everywhere. How can this research environment help make our country more competitive in basic research? We need to change the environment for research.

Caijing: You made a very important point just now – we must be clear about what independent innovation is truly about. So are you against closed, and repetitive independent innovation?

Ren: If you mean the spirit of independent innovation, then I support it. But if you are talking about doing innovation independently, then I object it.

Caijing: If you define independent innovation this way, others would refute your point by referring to HiSilicon.

Ren: When it comes to innovation, HiSilicon also stands on the shoulders of others.

Zhu Guangping: Independent innovation does not mean innovating all by yourself. The key to innovation is to grasp the core part of a system, rather than reinventing the wheel. This would be meaningless.

Mr. Ren places great emphasis on mathematics. At its core, mathematics answers both the whys and hows. Say, you can easily make a hoe, does that mean you understand the principles behind it? What is the best shape, for example?

We know we can verify these things through experiments. But what are the theories behind these experiments? How can we identify the gaps between our theories and experiments? What are the limits? We have to verify these with theories.

CCTV: I don't agree with you. When it comes to automotive manufacturing, some say that Li Shufu is an important figure in China's automotive industry, because he was able to lever Volvo with capital. But people also call him "a giant with short legs", because he does not possess the technology to produce engines. Most automotive companies in the world possess the technology to produce engines, but Chinese companies don't. In this case, isn't independent innovation critical?

Ren: I'm not against Li Shufu, but can we say things like shock absorbers, steel shims, and tires are the products of independent innovation?

Let me tell you a story about how Germans make cars. When I visited Stuttgart in Germany, the dean of the University of Stuttgart's faculty of engineering took me to observe their first-year students' class during their first few weeks. Each student was given a piece of iron and a drawing of a wheel gear. They then had to make a gear with just a knife. After they made the gear, they would not be graded. They could only receive a grade when they fitted the gear into the gearbox, and the car had driven away and back safely. This is what underpins the German automotive industry.

What are the differences between European cars and Chinese cars? Why are European cars more expensive? Because they are more reliable. Many companies can make cars, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can all make best cars. To make good cars, you need extensive technological achievements of human civilizations. So I don't think it can be called independent innovation.

Zhu Guangping: Independent innovation doesn't mean you do everything yourself. It means you need to find out what you are good at. We all know that weaknesses are usually what lead to failures. So the key is to identify your strengths.

Ren: We can buy things that we are not good at making ourselves. Why bother making things we are not good at?

CCTV: If you can't buy things you don't have, then are you doomed?

Ren: The situation we are in is an extreme one, and not everyone has to go through this. We should move forward based on the achievements of human civilizations. If it is independent innovation like you said, where are you going to get the material for steel plates? If you have to source them from others, then it cannot be called independent innovation.

Q29 CCTV: Do you think the situation you are in is accidental or will it be the new norm for Chinese companies in the future?

Ren: I've never spent time studying specific social issues in China. I'm speaking to you today because our public relations department is pushing me to do so. They treat me a bit like a shield that can block "bullets" coming towards us, and that's how I have come to be here. I'm old, and I can make some sacrifices because I don't have many things to worry about.

I spend most of my time researching the company's internal problems. I'm also interested in the technologies relevant to our businesses worldwide. This helps me identify what strategic mistakes we might have made. I don't really get along with my own family. I spend such little time with my children and my wife as well. She once accused me of only caring about my company, not them. If I also cared about social issues, I would probably end up losing my family. So I'm not in a position to comment on social issues and I don't have extra energy to study other Chinese companies.

Q30 Financial Weekly: Is there a way to address the spectrum concerns raised by the US Department of Defense?

Ren: I suppose I am addressing it?

Q31 Huxiu.com: I was given a brochure about your previous interview transcripts with foreign media outlets. I read it carefully and found some strange questions asked by foreign media. In fact, I noticed that there are some misunderstanding and ideological issues between countries. In your opinion, how can these issues be addressed? Have you ever considered changing the way Huawei will position and promote itself outside China in the future, or what you will do to improve your approach to globalization?

Ren: We do not seek to solve our reputation issues outside of China through media campaigns. I think we will ultimately need to solve these issues by providing excellent services to our customers. We are very advanced, and our customers will realize this if they start using our services.

Let me give you an example. The Chairman of the South Korean LG Group once reached out to me and said he wanted a 300 Mbps LTE network. I even objected to him at first. I told him 100 Mbps would be enough and 300 Mbps would not be necessary. He came to persuade me with the help of two interpreters. He insisted on 300 Mbps. So we sold him equipment that could deliver 300 Mbps. Soon after that, Pope John Paul II visited South Korea, and 300,000 people gathered in an area of 1.3 square miles. Everybody was taking photos and sending them out through our 300 Mbps network, and the network did not crash.

The second example is about how we helped to ensure smooth communications during the Hajj. Before we took over the network, all carriers had suffered from network breakdowns during the event. However, this has not happened once since we started providing the services. The very moment before four to five million Muslims started praying, everyone would turn off their phones. When the praying was over, everyone would turn their phones back on and get authentication at the same time. But our network still did not crash and all communications went smoothly. This is a good example of how we shape our reputation in the world. We do not seek to change our reputation simply through media campaigns.

As for investments outside China, this is because we need to do this. For example, we have invested in an optical chip factory in the UK, aiming to make the UK the hub for the exports of these chips in the future. We also have factories in Germany and Japan. We build factories as needed, not for the purpose of boosting our reputation. We don't need a better reputation; we need purchase orders.

Q32 Guancha.cn: Yesterday we visited your Exhibition Hall for Virtual Restricted Shares. I had two feelings which lead to my two questions for you:

First, regarding the ownership structure, Huawei has taken a totally different path compared to other major technology companies in East Asia, such as Samsung Electronics and TSMC. In these companies, foreign entities or individuals hold at least 50% of company shares. This type of ownership structure means Western capital can obtain capital gains from leading Eastern Asian companies like Samsung Electronics and TSMC. What's your view on the differences here and the topic of capital gains?

Second, Huawei's ownership structure is a model that Huawei has been exploring and finds fitting. Huawei has communicated with Western media about this over the past few years. But I learned yesterday that there are still some misunderstandings among Western media outlets. They don't believe Huawei's shares are fully owned by its employees. Rather, they think Huawei's ownership structure is more of an employee rewarding scheme. This tells me two things about the West. First, Western technology companies value talent and technology, which I admire. On the other hand, they tend to misunderstand or simply do not understand things that do not work the Western way. What do you think is the root cause of Western misunderstandings?

Ren: I'm not interested in capital, so I haven't done any research about that. If Western media outlets are interested in it, they can do the research themselves. But no matter what, I will not let external capital enter our company. The problem for our company now is that we earn too much money. This is partly because we cannot lower prices. If we lowered our prices, the market of other companies would be squeezed and Huawei would share the fate of Xiang Yu, the Hegemon-King of Western Chu, eventually failing. So we cannot do this as an industry player.

In this regard, Apple is a role model. It's like an umbrella beneath which many small companies shelter and survive. If Apple charged low prices, there would be no other mobile phones in the world. With the excessive money that we earn, we use some of it for strategic investments, but we don't seek horizontal expansion. Instead, we use it to fund universities and scientists. At Huawei, we have scientist conferences which bring together numerous leading scientists from around the world, which I think is a miracle.

So we don't let external capital into our company. Capital investors are inherently greedy, which would stand in the way of the realization of our ideals.

Guancha.cn: What do you think is the root cause of Western misunderstandings of Huawei's ownership structure?

Ren: Such misunderstandings do not appear just today. Western misunderstandings about China have existed for decades. It's okay as long as our ownership structure complies with Chinese laws and regulations.

Q33 Financial Weekly: The US government detained Ms. Meng in Canada, and then imposed an export ban on Huawei, citing the Department of Justice's sanctions against Iran as the reason. In order to find a way out, would you be willing to talk with the US government, the Department of Commerce, and the Department of Justice?

Ren: We have sued the US government, haven't we? We would rather talk with them in court through lawyers, where the US has to provide evidence against us.

Financial Weekly: That means you won't talk with them in private?

Ren: I don't have private access to them. Can anyone give me Trump's phone number?

Q34 NetEase: I'd like to ask a more relaxed question. Last year, you took a family photo with your youngest daughter Annabel Yao and her mother Yao Ling in Paris. As a snapshot of one of your then-rare public appearances, this photo fascinated the outside world. How would you describe yourself as a father and a husband? How much time do you spend with your family? Since Annabel is now studying at Harvard, what kind of job do you want her to pursue in the future?

Ren: I feel I owe my children a lot. I was serving in the army when my first two children were still young, and went back home every 11 months. When I was at home, my children had to go to school during the day, do homework in the evening, and then go to sleep. Life went on like this every day, so we barely had any communication. Life wasn't very easy for my young daughter either. The company was struggling to survive at that time, so I had to spend over 10 hours at the company every day or go on business trips for months. To enter the international market and prove that Huawei's success was not built on corruption, I stayed overseas for a few months in a row and had little contact with my children. They have become who they are through their own efforts, and they demand a lot of themselves.

My little daughter danced 15 hours a week during her middle school and high school. She did homework every night after dancing, and didn't get to sleep until one o'clock in the morning. At her university, she works until two o'clock in the morning, or even until 4 or 5 a.m. to do algorithms. She loves art, and every time she was invited to a debutante ball, she would ask me and her mother whether she could attend. I was always very supportive of her. Because if I threw cold water on her even once and forced her to choose another way, she could easily blame me and her mother for any problems she ran into in the future. We felt it would be much better to support her in doing whatever she wants to. When she brought up the idea of taking a family photo, I was the first to support her and allowed her to post it online. Her mother had thought that I would decline this request, but I didn't. I owe my children, and the least I can do is support them, so that my daughter can focus on her studies and take control of her own destiny.

NetEase: Could you please tell us a bit about your wife?

Ren: I have been married twice and have three children. My ex-wife is very tough. She used to be a political commissar of 300,000 Red Guards in Chongqing. She was a big shot back then and I was not even one of the Red Guards. I didn't have a girlfriend after graduating from university, and someone introduced her to me. I don't know what she saw in me, because she was already somebody and I was nobody. I had nothing but good academic performance. My family was poor and my father was locked up in a "cow shed". But she just fell in love with me. After 20 years, our marriage came to an end. My current wife, Yao Ling, is very gentle and capable. She has dedicated over 20 years of her life to educating and cultivating our daughter. She has been successful in this regard. My ex-wife gets along with Yao quite well, and even my marriage certificate with Yao and my little daughter's household registration record (hukou) were taken care of by her.

Q35 People's Daily: Google has suspended some business with Huawei. To respond to this, Huawei has made a media statement. I'd like to know how Huawei will be impacted in terms of the Android operating system.

Ren: There would be some impact. Google is a great company, and we are both finding solutions and discussing possible remedies.

Q36 Global Times: I see many job ads by HiSilicon these days, including on its WeChat account. Chinese companies, including Alibaba and Tencent, are facing the common challenge of attracting more high-end talent and international talent. What is Huawei's plan for building a high-end talent resource pool? Have you set any specific standards in terms of compensation and benefits for high-end talent?

Ren: The answer is a sense of mission. We will certainly set specific standards for compensation and benefits, but more importantly, I believe we need to give our employees a sense of mission and opportunities to fulfill their missions. We also need to allow our scientists to do research freely.

Global Times: I toured Huawei's offices in Europe a few months ago, and I found that many non-Chinese employees have a good understanding of Huawei's culture. I myself am reading some books about Huawei, and I'm curious what drives you, as a private company with strong Chinese characteristics, to become an international company with a generally-accepted corporate culture.

Ren: What you read about Huawei in books written by people outside of Huawei is by and large untrue. Most of the information in such books comes from online documents, but we don't oppose this kind of writing because they live on this. I suggest you go to the Xinsheng Community and get access to real Huawei stories. Non-Chinese employees are basically the same as us, in that we both are committed to serving our customers. That means we share the same value.

Global Times: China's work culture, including the recently discussed "996" working hour system, has conflicted with Western working cultures. I'm wondering how Huawei manages and coordinates these conflicts.

Ren: We respect the labor laws in every country where we operate and make sure the working hours are reasonable. But our employees have a strong sense of mission, which drives them to continuously make accomplishments. Our non-Chinese scientists actually work harder than our Chinese scientists, and many of them still aren't married despite being in their 30s or even 40s.

Q37 Science and Technology Daily: As you mentioned above, Huawei's key operating teams are becoming more capable and stronger. While layoffs are a sensitive talking point in the Chinese market, many ICT companies are going to or have cut jobs. Since Huawei was established in 1987, there haven't been any massive layoffs. What's your opinion about layoffs?

Ren: The number of former Huawei employees exceeds the number of current employees. How did they end up leaving Huawei? Some of them left of their own will. If some business fails, it is the commander's liability, not the employee's. When we remove a department, we should find a way for its employees who have developed many skills as they grow.

For example, the company recently commended the application & software department. I approved the department's request to invite 10,000 employees to walk the red carpet, which ended up with several thousand employees. In 2017, we held a strategy retreat in Shanghai and decided to scale down the application & software department which had made no major achievements. When we decided to remove this department, I was afraid that its employees would suffer in their new departments because they might not have good performance or their personal grades were low. So I privately told the HR department to raise their salaries before they left. Two years later when I visited them, I found many of them had set out to a new journey even before their salaries were raised, and contributed a lot to the success the Consumer BG and the Cloud BU. They went for strategic opportunities, and got promotions while finding the opportunities to make contributions. During this process of scaling down, most of the redundant personnel were transferred to key strategic operating teams. Only a few mediocre employees were advised to leave. While restructuring our organization, we remove departments, but don't dismiss employees.

Q38 The Paper: Richard Yu said that you used iPhone in the past, but now you use Huawei's own high-end phones. Are you using a P30?

Ren: The P30 is too advanced. My phones are not the latest. If I use advanced phones, I have to study the new functions, which is a waste of time for me. I don't need new functions.

The Paper: Have you always favored the CNBG (carrier network business)?

Ren: No. I often scold those who I favor. Otherwise, why do I scold them? I also scold Richard Yu a lot.

The Paper: How do you see the growth of the CBG (consumer business)?

Ren: After all, it is a support business. It aims to make money and give it to the CNBG to help it become a global leader. The CNBG uses the money the CBG gives it to charge ahead and capture "Mount Everest". Even if we can't grow crops there, it is still right we capture it. This is the principle we follow. It's not that I favor the CNBG.

The Paper: I think Richard Yu is very capable.

Ren: I didn't say that he is not capable. You media people are all saying good things about Richard Yu. Please call Richard right now.

The Paper: Can you summarize the development of the CBG over the past several years?

Ren: When we recognize a department, we must not just praise it. We need to correct its mistakes and drive it to move in the right direction. We have a lot of reflection internally. Sometimes, members of the Board of Directors Executive Committee quarrel, but they will often reach a consensus eventually.

Richard Yu: I hope that we can gain more of your support, boss. Some of your words might be misinterpreted or misunderstood, and some people even used these words to attack us relentlessly.

Ren: Richard, you don't walk tall today.

Financial Weekly: You set a 150-billion-dollar goal for the CBG?

Ren: They set it themselves, and I am sure they will not attain it.

Financial Weekly: You place hope in them, aren't you?

Ren: Market demand has approached the saturation curve. When you move forward along the saturation curve, you may put in a lot of effort, but cannot widen the gap between you and the followers. The gap will only gradually narrow. For example, it is very difficult to download two movies within a second. It doesn't actually matter much to users if they can download one movie or two movies within a second. Even if we invest heavily in technology for this, we won't see any big difference in its application. This will easily cause losses to the company. It is easy to take the lead while an industry is rising. However, it is hard to do so when we begin to approach the saturation curve. Therefore, I am not sure what will happen in the future.

Q39 Caijing: Regarding the shareholding structure. I previously interviewed some Huawei employees. They are very concerned about one issue: In the past, Huawei's shares grew along the way, and they bought many shares in Huawei, which benefited them tremendously. However, they have one question now. Uncertainty about the future is increasing. If Huawei encounters problems, will dividends and earnings per share be impacted?

Ren: Naturally. Whether to buy or sell company shares is up to the employees themselves. The mechanism is open and our employees are not bundled with the company. Dividends from Huawei shares are expected to drop. Our Blue Team has criticized the company for "distributing dividends at a rate of more than 30% for 30 years in a row." They asked, "How long will this continue?" Therefore, I criticize the Board of Directors Executive Committee every year, saying that profits are increasing so much, and our strategic investment is not sufficient. Their self-reflection minutes for the previous year are still on my desk, and I haven't approved them yet. This year, Donald Trump approved the sanctions on Huawei, which may cause our profits to drop slightly.

Caijing: This means they need to take the good with the bad?

Ren: We understand what some employees think, and they can take back their money if they want.

Caijing: You just mentioned that as long as you don't allow capital into Huawei, you can adopt any path for your future development. Capital is a very sensitive topic and we've already heard all kinds of rumors.

Ren: Rumors are just rumors. We will never allow capital into Huawei. This is a consensus shared by all our executives. We work for ideals, not money.

Q40 36kr: Regarding the operating system, which department is responsible for it? Will you open up the source code to attract some developers?

Ren: I can't say for sure which department is responsible for this. We will try our hand at this. It is not technically difficult to develop an operating system. What is difficult is building an ecosystem. This is a big issue, and we should take it easy.

Q41 jiemian.com: Yesterday, I went to visit your Exhibition Hall for Virtual Restricted Shares and I was shocked. Huawei is highly bundled with the rights and interests of its employees. You hold only 1.4% of company shares and you only have the power of veto. In many companies today, the founder often has rights that align with their shares or demands more rights than their shares can provide. Your influence in Huawei is incredible. What is the essence of this?

Ren: At the beginning of the year, we completed the election for representatives of our shareholding employees, who become members of our new Representatives' Commission. This was a result of more than one year of preparations. These members were elected on a one-share-one-vote basis. Why didn't people outside Huawei know about this? I don't know why our employees have voluntarily kept this a secret. These representatives of shareholding employees do not represent shares. Instead, they represent shareholding employees and vote company decisions on a one-person-one-vote basis. The company's Board of Directors makes decisions through voting, which also follows the one-person-one-vote principle. As authorized by the Board of Directors, its Executive Committee manages the company's daily operations.

Q42 Pear Video: You have never used your power of veto, Mr. Ren. Have you ever wanted to use it at a specific moment? Or, what would be likely to prompt you to use your veto in the future?

Ren: "Brexit." There was a date that my power of veto would expire. I had planned to give it up when that date arrived. However, when we passed the new Charter of Corporate Governance, the UK happened to vote on Brexit. If we allowed voting as they did, the fate of Huawei might be ruined as a company. That would be a regret, so we retained the power of veto, which is temporarily in my hands. When some members of our Executive Management Team exit to form a Core Elite Group, I will give up this power and hand it over to the Core Elite Group, which will be made up of seven people. Then the Core Elite Group will be able to veto decisions on critical issues. Normally there is no need to use the power of veto on business matters.

 

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